The origin of morality

[Joel]

I argue that secular morality is far superior. If your only argument against it is that forgiveness isn't necessary, then I guess you're right.
But why does it have to be necessary? There should be a personal need to forgive; not to forgive just because you're told to, but because unforgiving people tear themselves apart as a result.
For their own wellbeing and interpersonal advancement, they should forgive.

This mindset should produce more morally sound people than religions do.

[The Grand Nudger]

Any particular secular morality, or just secular morality in general, or just secular morality as opposed to religious morality? I'm sure I could find examples of secular morality that would be at best - equal with religious morality, and at worst - inferior - in your eyes, anyway.

Not, mind you, that I would disagree,but for me, it just boils down to a preference for ownership. The only thing that secular morality and religious morality (as we so often see either) simply -could not- have in common, is the source for that morality. Case in point, they could be roughly identical to each other in the particulars - with one side claiming responsibility for themselves - the other shirking it off on a god. I prefer that people own those moral directives they would argue. I actually prefer this even of those who argue for religious morality - ie "remove god, would you put your mark on the dotted line of this morality in the absence of that god". Just a preference though.

To put it another way - if some part of a religious morality stands in the absence of a god, then the reasons it stands have nothing to do with that god. The commands of that god, the religious justification, is superfluous.

[Joel]

So, pretty much all morality?

[Mystical]

Put your name on the dotted line. I'm usin that one How on earth can people who say they'd still be moral without god, say that we are immoral without god?

[The Grand Nudger]

Some don't, we have a few around here who like to peddle tales of their misdeeds and then pin it on demons, or their "atheism". It's kind of depressing, to see people who simply will not accept responsibility - and then unsurprising to see them argue for a faith that allows them to continue to avoid their responsibility for their own actions.

[Mystical]

A million kudos to that

[fr0d0]

I wouldn't get on my high religious horse fr0d0 if I were you. Your morality (xtian standard or lack there of) is the sole perpetrator of the most heinous crimes of immorality to date (quickly being overtaken by your sister religion islam) I wouldn't be proud at all if I were you

I'm repulsed at what people have done in the name of good. That has nothing to do with what I said.

---

I argue that secular morality is far superior. If your only argument against it is that forgiveness isn't necessary, then I guess you're right.
But why does it have to be necessary? There should be a personal need to forgive; not to forgive just because you're told to, but because unforgiving people tear themselves apart as a result.
For their own wellbeing and interpersonal advancement, they should forgive.

This mindset should produce more morally sound people than religions do.

Precisely. Your personal benefit comes before that of others. Small scale win, large scale fail.

You are not forgiven for failing as you must, and that colours you're judgement of others.

You cannot think beyond your limitations. Those that have thought beyond those limitations can forgive more.

[Faith No More]

Where are you getting the idea that forgiveness is a virtue of morality from, fr0d0?

[The Grand Nudger]

Precisely. Your personal benefit comes before that of others. Small scale win, large scale fail.

If the "small scale" doesn't "win" with relative frequency there will be no "large scale" to consider. It's not a binary equation. End of.

[Joel]

Forgiveness only affects yourself. Morality doesn't hinge on that; only forgiveness.
I could fool someone into believing I have forgiven them and it doesn't affect them: but it will affect me, because I haven't actually forgiven them.

I don't see what point you're trying to make.

EDIT: How can I forgive any more than everyone who has wronged me?