Why prophet married aisha.

[SiRade]

He married a little girl because he wanted to f**k a little girl. That's all. He could have married older girl, why didn't he do so? On top of that, this gives "justification" for muslims to marry little chirlden, not just in their desert homelands, but even here, in Europe.

[A_Nony_Mouse]

He married a little girl because he wanted to f**k a little girl. That's all. He could have married older girl, why didn't he do so? On top of that, this gives "justification" for muslims to marry little chirlden, not just in their desert homelands, but even here, in Europe.

Yes, you express the Roman and therefore Christian distaste for the practice of polygamy and you impose age standards for marriage that did not exist before the 19th c. AD. More specifically you are imposing modern Christian standards in the matter of marriage age. In practice you must also condemn Jews for exactly the same practice of polygamy and age of marriage determined by local custom. If one attacks Islam then one must also attack Judaism in equal measure. And in the matter of little girls Yahweh has ordered it and Jesus fulfilled the law not changed the law.

But if you have evidence of Mohamed's true motivation in this I am very interested in reading it. If you have evidence he actually did fuck her before her first period as was also the custom I am equally interested in reading that.

I am also interested in reading your evidence that she was too young by local custom and that all men are pedophiles. As to local custom it was not until 1880 that Delaware (state in the US) increased the legal age of marriage from 7 years. At some point only less than 7 was unacceptable.

Can you back up any of the implied facts in support of your position? Please feel free to write as much as necessary along with the references.

I am also interested in your evidence the Elvis and Jerry Lee were pedophiles.

---

I do not ordinarily do this sort of bible thumping but let me make an exception so you can tell me these examples are not pedophilia approved in Judaism.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites ... And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males ... And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones ... And Moses was wroth with the officers ... And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Numbers 31:1-18

When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it ... And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself. Deuteronomy 20:10-14

How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing we have sworn by the LORD that we will not give them of our daughters to wives? ... And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children. And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man. And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh. Judges 21:7-11

Go and lie in wait in the vineyards; And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh ... And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught. Judges 21:20-23

[EGross]

@A_Nony_Mouse : Actually, the entry that you are highlighing as "women children" is the Hebrew word na'arah, the male form being na'ar. Na'arah always is assigned to a never-has-been-married female of an age when she can be married, and does not necessarily mean a child. Granted, this is always over the age of three, but it also has no upper limit. For example, Isaac, when Abraham was going to sacrifice him, was called a na'ar, the male form of the adjective, and he was at least 30 years old in the story.

Keep in mind that the form of marriage back then was handled different. A woman were treated like a booding mare. First, she was purchased, in a process called erusin, which denotes ownership, and sometimes is translated as "betrothed". The original owner (father, eldest brother, or other male relative), collects the fee and hangs onto the purchased item, typically for a year if she is of breeding age, or longer if she is pre-menstrual. Once she is old enough and the purchaser (the ba'al or owner, but often translated as "husband"), will then do nisuin, which is the acceptance of the goods and the physical transfer of the item.

As to how old the youngest female would be for breeding, it's hard to say. But as noted, the morality of 3500 years ago is not what it is today to most 1st World countries. But a child bride was also probably considered the norm.

As for the other terms you highlighted, the Hebrew word "katanim" would be little ones if it were used in that sentence. But the text that you noted uses הטף (hataf), which means infants and newborns. (l'hatif, which is the hiphil form means "to drip", and relates to seedlings in the human sense.) That sentence is about taking the woman and her infants as property. Finally, young virgins as you use it isn't a bad translation. But it uses na'arah as I noted above.

One thing to keep in mind was that it was of the highest priority of the men, according to the texts that you cite, to have male children. Because of the tribal setup, the males would acquire a portion of the community tribal land property, which was distributed based on the affiliation. Converts and those with non-Jewish fathers got nothing. Daughters were property, owned, and transferred across tribal boundaries, and so could not take any community property with them, which would have messed up the land allocation setup. So if you were a man, you wanted more sons, since that was how you increased your family wealth. You wanted as many breeding wives as you could. In a pre-breeding stage she was of little value. Acquiring and selling slaves also accomplished much more, as well as buying and selling daughters.

In many 3rd world countries, this attitude still prevails.

[SiRade]

He married a little girl because he wanted to f**k a little girl. That's all. He could have married older girl, why didn't he do so? On top of that, this gives "justification" for muslims to marry little chirlden, not just in their desert homelands, but even here, in Europe.

Yes, you express the Roman and therefore Christian distaste for the practice of polygamy and you impose age standards for marriage that did not exist before the 19th c. AD. More specifically you are imposing modern Christian standards in the matter of marriage age. In practice you must also condemn Jews for exactly the same practice of polygamy and age of marriage determined by local custom. If one attacks Islam then one must also attack Judaism in equal measure. And in the matter of little girls Yahweh has ordered it and Jesus fulfilled the law not changed the law.

But if you have evidence of Mohamed's true motivation in this I am very interested in reading it. If you have evidence he actually did fuck her before her first period as was also the custom I am equally interested in reading that.

I am also interested in reading your evidence that she was too young by local custom and that all men are pedophiles. As to local custom it was not until 1880 that Delaware (state in the US) increased the legal age of marriage from 7 years. At some point only less than 7 was unacceptable.

Can you back up any of the implied facts in support of your position? Please feel free to write as much as necessary along with the references.

I am also interested in your evidence the Elvis and Jerry Lee were pedophiles.

---

Well, firstly, I didn't mention ANYTHING about polygamy, so let's leave it out for now. Secondly, I consider paedophilia to be ugly it ALL of it's forms and I DO condemn Judaism and any other religion and/or local traditions which permits it. But... Do jews still fuck little girls?
Before I start I want to make another point – I cannot prove something is 100% true, but I can prove that something is very very very unlikely and, thus, is probably false.
Now, back to the topic. Let's begin by defining what paedophilia is. According to The ICD-10 Classification of Mental and Behavioural Disorders Diagnostic criteria for research World section 65.4 “ A persistent or a predominant preference for sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children. The person is at least 16 years old and at least five years older than the child or children.”
As you can probably already see, there is NO mentioning of periods whatsoever.
According to american psychiatric association

According to the DSM-IV definition, pedophilia involves sexual activity by an adult with a prepubescent child. Some individuals prefer females, usually 8- to 10-year-olds. Those attracted to males usually prefers slightly older children. Some prefer both sexes. While some are sexually attracted only to children, others also are sometimes attracted to adults.
Pedophiliac activity may involve undressing and looking at the child or more direct physical sex acts. All these activities are psychologically harmful to the child, and some may be physically harmful. In addition, individuals with pedophilia often go to great lengths to obtain photos, films or pornographic publications that focus on sex with children.
These individuals commonly explain their activities with excuses or rationalizations that the activities have "educational value" for the child, that the child feels "sexual pleasure" from the activities or that the child was "sexually provocative." However, child psychiatrists and other child development experts maintain that children are incapable of offering informed consent to sex with an adult. Furthermore, since pedophiliac acts harm the child, psychiatrists condemn publications or organizations that seek to promote or normalize sex between adults and children.

Now, if you would read this paper you would know, that it is VERY unlikelly that 9 years old girl would have had her menarche. I could have chosen studies from UK/US/Canada and it wouldn't make any difference.
Now lets look what muslim sources tell us

Volumn 005, Book 058, Hadith Number 234.
-----------------------------------------
Narated By 'Aisha : The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the
home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my
mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I
went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door
of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became All-right, she took some water and rubbed my
face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said,
"Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the
marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at
that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Volumn 008, Book 073, Hadith Number 151.
-----------------------------------------
Narated By 'Aisha : I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to
play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the
Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it
was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari
page 143, Vol.13)

This not just proves that at the time she hadn't reached her puberty, but it suggests that the only reason so-called prophet hadn't fucked her when she was 6 was because she was ill!

Oh, as for muhammads motives...

Volumn 007, Book 062, Hadith Number 018.
-----------------------------------------
Narated By 'Ursa : The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your
brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she ('Aisha) is lawful for me to
marry."

From this it is quite clear that HE was the one who wanted to marry her and that her father was... Not very glad. From reaction of her father is it quite clear it was not acceptable, at least not for him.

[A_Nony_Mouse]

@A_Nony_Mouse : Actually, the entry that you are highlighing as "women children" is the Hebrew word na'arah, the male form being na'ar. Na'arah always is assigned to a never-has-been-married female of an age when she can be married, and does not necessarily mean a child. Granted, this is always over the age of three, but it also has no upper limit. For example, Isaac, when Abraham was going to sacrifice him, was called a na'ar, the male form of the adjective, and he was at least 30 years old in the story.

So we are in agreement all these references refer to taking as wife or concubine.

Then we are also in agreement that any female child without age restriction is included.

What is your disagreement? Are you saying the passages should be revised or read to say all the females too young to marry were also slaughtered? That is very difficult to read into the text.

Keep in mind that the form of marriage back then was handled different. A woman were treated like a booding mare. First, she was purchased, in a process called erusin, which denotes ownership, and sometimes is translated as "betrothed". The original owner (father, eldest brother, or other male relative), collects the fee and hangs onto the purchased item, typically for a year if she is of breeding age, or longer if she is pre-menstrual. Once she is old enough and the purchaser (the ba'al or owner, but often translated as "husband"), will then do nisuin, which is the acceptance of the goods and the physical transfer of the item.

How do you know for a fact that or something similar was not also the practice at the time of Mohamed? There were several jewish kingdoms along the east coast of the Red Sea, that is, intermingled with Medina and Mecca.

But for the record where did you find all that in the Old Testament? If you are just (questionably) applying generic middle east customs then they apply to Mohamed with equal validity.

As to how old the youngest female would be for breeding, it's hard to say. But as noted, the morality of 3500 years ago is not what it is today to most 1st World countries. But a child bride was also probably considered the norm.

As for the other terms you highlighted, the Hebrew word "katanim" would be little ones if it were used in that sentence. But the text that you noted uses הטף (hataf), which means infants and newborns. (l'hatif, which is the hiphil form means "to drip", and relates to seedlings in the human sense.) That sentence is about taking the woman and her infants as property. Finally, young virgins as you use it isn't a bad translation. But it uses na'arah as I noted above.

On the off chance that there was such a thing as adoption and that there was a word for it then that would have been the word used. Is that not reasonable?

Is it more reasonable to assume as you appear to do that women with female children were to be spared contrary to orders?

One thing to keep in mind was that it was of the highest priority of the men, according to the texts that you cite, to have male children. Because of the tribal setup, the males would acquire a portion of the community tribal land property, which was distributed based on the affiliation. Converts and those with non-Jewish fathers got nothing. Daughters were property, owned, and transferred across tribal boundaries, and so could not take any community property with them, which would have messed up the land allocation setup. So if you were a man, you wanted more sons, since that was how you increased your family wealth. You wanted as many breeding wives as you could. In a pre-breeding stage she was of little value. Acquiring and selling slaves also accomplished much more, as well as buying and selling daughters.

In many 3rd world countries, this attitude still prevails.

I do not see what breeding age has to do with the words used. Obviously those who could not afford slaves got those women for free. And free always beats buy. And after four or so they were extra hands who, as female, had to be treated no better than or different from slaves.