Pauline Letters to the church.

[Vicki Q]

What a fascinating theory! Could you point me in the direction of academic writing I could follow this up from?

I feel the need to correct you because this is not a "theory." It is a hypothesis and you should learn the difference before you go making a fool out of yourself.

The evidence thusfar for this hypothesis is the utter failure of the earliest xtian writers to know who the fuck "paul" is. He seems to be a mid-second century concoction....along with much of the rest of xtian nonsense.

Oh, and I am capable of thinking for myself. I do not need to run to some "authority" like you people. I reserve the right to THINK.

Try it some time.

I'm sure the writers of the pseudepigraphical Pauline material thought they were mimicking someone; and they thought if they could do it well, someone considered important enough to give their writings traction in the Early Church.

And I would certainly encourage serious thinking. One thing I firmly believe is that our journey of belief should only end at death. We should both try it. All the time.

[Minimalist]

An excellent forgery is still just a forgery.

[Drich]

Okay will disagree that has been often the result in history, no argument there. However ww2 if your going to use that as a example, then you must know that biggest reason they rebelled on the treaty of versaille was because of hitler, bluntly put nobody else in leadership of the weimar republic had the balls to do it. The same hitler that rose to power on a explicitly anti semetic platform because of centuries of lutheran and catholic doctrine scape goating jews.

The German Jews fought along side the 'christian' Germans in WWI and were a major part of the economy. There were Jews who were admired and decorated as Hero's in WWI http://www.thejc.com/comment-and-debate/...ld-war-one
The resentment came in WWI came from the Nazi leadership. They needed a scape goat and reason they lost WWI, coupled with the fact that they seem to be continuing to prosper while the christian citizens were under sever hardship. (Or so says their properganda.) This example is not limited to WWII. Look at what the bolshivics did in Russia, what Moa did in China, The Kims are doing with North Korea, or what 'Manifest destiny" did to the American Indians, what segergation did for black people.
Every aspect of our history says 'might makes right.'

Name it then

The Book of Job

Bare assertion, even if god is saying it. And no it is not a ever changing scale at all, if it was there would be atleast one society where random murder was okay. Name one.

Hitlers Germany, The United States durning our west ward expansion, North Korea for the last 100 years, Osama's version of Islam, In our current war against terrorism Do I need to go on? Because I can, the truth is that every soceity sanctions the murder of one people or another for various reasons.. not only is it ok to kill another person/people, it becomes one's moral obligation to do so. The reasoning/justification always varies, but the net result is always the same. a people are identified, targeted, dehumanized, and then slated for slaughter, then they are murdered.

Book chapter and verse?

Deuteronomy 13
13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

I personally recommend moral utilitarianism because it can be aptly demonstrated that it makes the world a far better place when applied on a large scale. It's where your human rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness come from come from.
No the rules of " the action that maximizes pleasure and minimizes pain for the most number of people" does not change.

You do know I am not an old testament Jew right?
My God does not require me to Kill anyone.

So they lied when they translated the bible then

Bibles are compiled one of two ways. a literal translation Which means when they translated, they try and use the cloest english word possiable.(making exception for syntax) When one does this the poetry, fluidity, cultural and subbtal meanings are lost. This is true with Any translation. The other form is contextual translation. This is where they take the general understood meaning of a text and translate the orginal language into what the translator 'feels' the orginal writter is trying to say. The problem with that is that the end result will reflect a given doctrine. (The translation will be made to fit what the translator believes.) and much is lost to a one sided doctrine.

That is why most translations are considered 'literal.' With a literal translation there are many 'oppertunities' for misunderstanding, and even surface level contradictions. That is why resources like the blue letter bible are made avaiable. So one can find a specific word and see it in the orginal greek or hebrew, and then define it according to how it was used. With that defination and the orginal context in which that word was taken from 98% of all misunderstandings are resolved.

You still made the jesus is comming claim but whatever I do no care if you did or not. Fact is it does not matter if all the river dried up or not the prophecy is still unfulfilled.

How?

Well do you believe in magic?

no.

either way in this situation we basically have a man paul has condemned on zero evidence.

Sorcer=Medicine man. A medicine man used herbs and enchantments to try and produce a given effect. Regaurdless if this guy was legit or not the fact that he used potions and enchantments made him a sorcer. Paul was not warning to be ware of the effects of magic, he was condemning one specific man who PRACTICE it.

---

God is not the only one who's business is to answer 'prayers.' Just because you get a petition/wish granted Does not mean it was granted by God. Satan 'grants wishes' to derail. That is why it is so dangerous to seek for 'signs and wonders' as your 'proof' of God. Ex: God if your real do this:________... Or God if your real let me have this girls as my GF, and I will do whatever...

Sorry for the late entry, but does that mean that Satan may provide good or beneficial things to people to lead them away from god?

It may seem so at the time. yes.

[Lemonvariable72]

So drich might makes right is a good thing then?

[Minimalist]

The German Jews fought along side the 'christian' Germans in WWI and were a major part of the economy.

Absolutely right, Drippy. But anti-semitism did not begin in Germany with Hitler. It goes way back, even beyond this.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou..._Jews.html

[Drich]

So drich might makes right is a good thing then?

It just is. It's not good or bad, unless you are for or against what is considered 'right.'

There is no universal right, no acts have an inherant value. The context of an act always dictates what is right and what is not. Couple this concept with the expressed will of the one who has the most 'might,' will determine what is right in a given situation.

If you live and die only in man's world then man has the final say on right and wrong. However if one lives and dies in God's world then he has to answer to God for his deeds. That is why there is such a great need to disprove or claim there is no God. this gives final authority back to man.

[Minimalist]

If you live and die only in man's world then man has the final say on right and wrong.

Right, again. (That's two in a row for you....don't make it a habit!) Except as there is no evidence for any other world this is pretty much what we are stuck with.

As I've noted before, had Germany won WWII there would be statues of Hitler all over Europe and the church would have made him a saint.

Such is the impact of victory on history.