Christian Liars and Frauds

[GodsRevolt]

Despite the fact that this is a horribly unfair question since I, nor do all Christians, look to the people you listed as leaders:

Look into the saints.

Francis of Assisi is a good place to start.
St. Augustine was an atheist before he became a father of the Church.
St. Aquinas was and still is a major voice in theological philosophy and the use of reason within in the faith.

I KNOW that you KNOW that the media focuses on entertaining stories, not the worthwhile ones, but there are a lot of good people who get NO attention from the news that are Christian. Just because you do not see news reports on them every night does NOT mean that they are not out there. There are several Dominicans at the parish I used to attend who are very busy all day with charity work and working with the homeless and my local priest right now, along with the deacon both have dedicated their lives to the community, including collecting food for the hungry, visiting those in jail or the hospital, and organizing community events.

Like I said, it is fine if you are angry, but you really need to work on your world view. I do not believe all atheists to be baby eating neanderthal ass holes with no morals or self-respect. The world is bigger and more complicated than that!

[Optimistic Mysanthrope]

Claiming that there are no good church leaders is as asinine as claiming there are no bad ones. People are people, no religion (or lack thereof) will change that.

[max-greece]

In all fairness I have to say that I have been hugely impressed with the response of the Greek Orthodox Church over here during the financial meltdown and crisis that has plagued Greece over the last 4 years. They are spearheading a huge effort to get food and vital supplies to people who now have no incomes at all. They are working with supermarkets, common people, businesses and any other organisation that wants to, to feed thousands of people every day from children to pensioners.

About a year ago I met a priest at a barbecue who was very high up in the organisation and responsible for the relief efforts for Athens and suburbs. Have you ever met a priest with 3 mobile phones? I have. In the 3 hours he was with us I guess he took 30 calls, liaising with haulage companies, food distribution centres, food distribution networks (volunteers) and God knows who else.

Christianity, of the Church can "do good." Of that I am in no doubt.

My problem is simply that on balance it may not be worse than any other organisation but it certainly doesn't appear to be better. One would expect an organisation endorsed by God to be better than any other - and frankly, it isn't, for al the reasons in this thread and all the reasons we talk about the Catholic Church and all the reasons throughout history.....

[Godlesspanther]

Claiming that there are no good church leaders is as asinine as claiming there are no bad ones. People are people, no religion (or lack thereof) will change that.

The question that I am trying to ask is that -- if I were to decide to convert to fundamentalist, evangelical xtianity today -- then who is it that I should see as a good role model -- who should I look up to and try to be like as an example of a good solid xtian?

[Minimalist]

Do you think it possible that there are Christians out there that are legitimately trying to be good people?

Is that the goal? To be good people?

Because it seems to me that the powers-that-be demand that they be good xtians* and fuck anyone else.


A good xtian is defined as one who does what the leader says.

[GodsRevolt]

Is that the goal? To be good people?

Because it seems to me that the powers-that-be demand that they be good xtians* and fuck anyone else.


A good xtian is defined as one who does what the leader says.

And if the leader says to be a good person then . . . ?

Give it a minute.

It'll come.

But I see the asterisk. Can you please define good Christian?

[tokutter]

Is that the goal? To be good people?

Because it seems to me that the powers-that-be demand that they be good xtians* and fuck anyone else.


A good xtian is defined as one who does what the leader says.

And if the leader says to be a good person then . . . ?

Give it a minute.

It'll come.

But I see the asterisk. Can you please define good Christian?

You first


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