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Libertarian atheists: part of the problem
#1
Libertarian atheists: part of the problem
http://www.alternet.org/belief/why-athei...-1-problem

Libertarian atheists are part of the 1% problem.

I'm forced to agree with the article, as long as the problem is greedy corporate raiders whose only concern is their own checkbook.

Still, I have to admit, some of the libertarians are still better than the hard-core conservatives. I mean, I feel more comfortable with a Ron Paul who wants to let the individual states decide what to do about laws on homosexuality vs a Rick Santorum who would pobably love to institute a national ban on homosexuality.
I live on facebook. Come see me there. http://www.facebook.com/tara.rizzatto

"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
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#2
RE: Libertarian atheists: part of the problem
No. Libertarians are part of the problem...a big part. Whether they believe in fucking jesus or the almighty dollar is irrelevant to the issue.
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#3
RE: Libertarian atheists: part of the problem
(December 8, 2013 at 11:18 am)Minimalist Wrote: No. Libertarians are part of the problem...a big part. Whether they believe in fucking jesus or the almighty dollar is irrelevant to the issue.

True, but I think the story is refering to the ones who say that, because they're pro-choice and they support gay rights and the ERA and everything like that, it makes them more progressive and better than other regular ol' conservatives.

And I guess, in a way it does make them better, but if they're still going to vote for the Republican candidate in the end anyway (and a lot of them do), the end is still the same.
I live on facebook. Come see me there. http://www.facebook.com/tara.rizzatto

"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
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#4
RE: Libertarian atheists: part of the problem
It DOES make them better than your standard run-of-the-mill greedy corporate-loving cocksucker. But not much better and it has precious little to do with atheism.
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#5
RE: Libertarian atheists: part of the problem
(December 8, 2013 at 11:14 am)TaraJo Wrote: I mean, I feel more comfortable with a Ron Paul who wants to let the individual states decide what to do about laws on homosexuality vs a Rick Santorum who would pobably love to institute a national ban on homosexuality.
Are you familiar with Paul's association with Gary North? I suggest you look it up, it is really quite scary.
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#6
RE: Libertarian atheists: part of the problem
Oh look, another writer who has no idea what Libertarianism is.

Quote:The aphorism that libertarians are Republicans with bongs is just about spot-on.
Bullshit. What about gay rights, military spending, immigration, abortion, gambling, prostitution, corporatism, etc.?

Quote:Atheists who embrace libertarianism often do so because they believe a governing body represents the same kind of constructed authority they’ve escaped from in regards to religion. This makes sense if one is talking about a totalitarian regime, but our Jeffersonian democracy, despite its quirky flaws, is government by the people for the people, and it was the federal government that essentially built the great American middle-class, the envy of the world.
The point that Libertarians raise again and again is that the current "Jeffersonian democracy" is not a government by the people, for the people anymore, and it is the federal government who is destroying the middle class today through corporatism (where large corporations control those in government). It's not a totalitarian regime, but it is an authoritarian government.

Quote:Libertarianism will serve only to replace government with a feudal serf model, which is what corporations are pushing so hard to achieve.
The bullshit is strong with this one. This is what the Republicans want, not what the Libertarians want, but I suppose if you start out with the presumption that both are the same thing, your conclusion is going to be faulty.

Quote:With libertarianism, property is sacred; all governments are bad; capitalists are noble heroes; unions are evil; and the poor are pampered good-for-nothings.
Oh dear. Let's break this down:

"property is sacred" - No, property is property. It's important, it's owned by an individual (or individuals) and shouldn't be forcibly taken from someone, but it's not something that is worshiped in any way.

"all governments are bad" - No, and this should be mindbogglingly obvious seeing as there is a Libertarian party and Libertarian candidates who are elected to positions in government. What Libertarians believe is that authoritarian governments are bad. In the same way that a Republican believes that a non-Republican government is bad, or a Democrat believes that a non-Democrat government is bad, a Libertarian believes that a non-Libertarian government is bad. It's that simple.

"capitalists are noble heroes" - No, because with all economic systems capitalism can be (and is) abused. However capitalism is seen by Libertarians as the best choice for an economic system that is fair and allows anyone to become prosperous if they work hard. We've seen the dangers of overbearing government-controlled economic systems before. They invariably lead to oppression.

"unions are evil" - Again, some of the behaviour of some unions is downright nasty, especially their treatment of workers who refuse to strike. Unions are a good thing generally, but they should not have ridiculous amounts of power.

"the poor are pampered good-for-nothings" - The poor are certainly not pampered, nor are they "good for nothings". The existence (and need for) unskilled labour demonstrates there is a definite need for them. Welfare itself is not a bad thing, but too much welfare has the danger of creating an environment where people prefer to live off welfare than seek prosperity through actual work. Lowering the level of regulation on small business would help in this regard, as currently it is far too hard for people with nothing (or almost nothing) to start a business themselves.
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#7
RE: Libertarian atheists: part of the problem
Quote:the current "Jeffersonian democracy" is not a government by the people, for the people anymore

Um...that was bullshit when Lincoln first said it, Divi Tiberio. The special interests were calling the shots even then and, ironically, Lincoln was speaking at the opening of a cemetery for those killed trying to compel 40% of those "people" to remain in a "government" at bayonet point.

Political mythology is just as bad as religious mythology.
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#8
RE: Libertarian atheists: part of the problem
I'm confused, are you agreeing with my statement or disagreeing with it?
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#9
RE: Libertarian atheists: part of the problem
WE always disagree on this because you seem to think there is a difference between fine, upstanding, libertarians and evil corporatists. Perhaps on your side of the pond there is a difference but here they are the same shit.
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#10
RE: Libertarian atheists: part of the problem
I meant with the statement you quoted. Do you believe the current government is a government of the people for the people or not?

We disagree on the other things because you can't seem to accept that the Libertarian party exists and is in no way affiliated with the Tea Party or the Republicans. If I agree that "Libertarians" are the same as the Tea Party and Republicans, then you are correct and I'm not a Libertarian. But, then we have to come to some sort of agreement on what the "Libertarian Party" should be referred to as. In short, your argument is based purely semantics. You think the people who don't call themselves Libertarians are Libertarians, and the people who are calling themselves Libertarians are...something different for which you haven't come up with a word yet.
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