The redneck strike again.

[Little Rik]

These people lived for generations in Arctic weather where there was very little plant food so they had to eat a lot of their meat raw in order to get all the vitamins and minerals they needed.

I am well aware that these people had to.
If i get stuck in the middle of nowhere with an empty
tank i surely would fill the tank with the
kerosene that i have in the car.
And if i get stuck on an island with nothing else to
eat other than seafood i certainly would eat seafood
in order to survive even if i knew that by eating
non sentient food i would be unable to carry on with
my meditation and spiritual growth to a degree.

Do the vegetarian steaks you eat contain palm oil? If not, that's fine. If the product does have palm oil is the supplier running a sustainable plantation which doesn't involve cutting down any more rain forest?

I avoid as much as i can palm oil in my food but let me say
something about palm plantation.
Rain forest are thousand time better than palm plantation.
We all know about the damages that cutting down rain
forest cause to the climate to the environment and to the animals
but there is something that you tend to ignore.
Palm trees attract the rain with their green cover.
The roots of these trees hold the water so they prevent
floods and keep the soil moist and this soil is not washed away.
Many animals that rely on the rain forest are gone but
other animals will move in to take advantage to this new
situation.
The poor farmers that before were almost starving now
have a way to survive.
All in all we loose a lot but not all is lost as oppose to
soya which is grown mainly to feed cattle for meat eating people.
Soya come and go and the green cover is nothing compared
to a palm plantation so we have less rain and when the rain come
it wash away a lot of top soil.
Now you may think that i am in favor of palm plantation.
No, i am not at all, i only point out that not all is lost and that
soya grown for feeding cattle is much much worse than palm oil.

Did you miss the bit about the genetic mutation?

Genetic mutation happen all the time that is why i fight to
mutate towards infinity rather than animality as denialists do.
This is a very interesting topic Ape.
Everything in this universe is moving.
Nothing stay the same so you go up or you go down
loosing all the past gains if you go down.

[Little Rik]

Destiny and karma are not the same thing.
Destiny is more similar to good or bad luck
while karma is based on actions and reactions.

Karma is another bullshit claim.

Good people spend their lives in poverty, while liars, thieves, crooks, cheats, backstabbers, double-dealers and murderers get elected to office, become powerful individuals, and die quiet, easy deaths, while good people spend their lives helping those around them, only to die of cancer, or of violence, or many other horrible ways to go.

"Karma" is a term used by a bunch of sheltered yuppies, ignorant hippies, and idealistic tools who are too cowardly to accept that good does not beget good, and bad does not beget bad. You don't get rewarded or punished by the universe for your actions. If you want proof of this, you need only look at current events...

The universe is made out of matter, water, light, air and space so
these elements can not possibly rule the karma law.
They themselves are ruled by the karma law or the balance in
this universe would be lost.
When the balance in this universe is altered in some part then we
usually have some big bang or other phenomena that cause changes.
As this happen in the universe it also happen in the more
conscious world.
A tiny ant if positioned in the wrong place can cause an avalanche but
at the end the order will be restored.
We are often if not always in disbelieve when we see a plane crashed
or young innocent girls raped and killed but we never think that
this is due to bad karma.
How would you know whether these people were in previous lives
rapist or murderers themselves?
According to statistics the cops are only able to arrest less than 10%
of criminals and even these criminals will not pay back their debt
properly by being in jail so there got to be an other way to have
these criminals to pay back their debt.
You borrow money from a bank and you can be sure that the bank
will always get back their money with the interests.
If not all the system would collapse
Just imagine if we could get money for free!
It never happen and never will.
Debts are always collected in every plane of life.



This also answer rasetsu question when she ask about karmik law.
She ask......how do i know?
I rely on maths.
2+2=4 not any other number so if we consider that the universe
and our life is based on the balance between positive and negative
we can clearly see that this balance can not be altered otherwise the
balance would kill all the system.
This universe has been here for billions and billions of years so this
means that the balance has always prevail.

[Angrboda]

This also answer rasetsu question when she ask about karmik law.
She ask......how do i know?
I rely on maths.
2+2=4 not any other number so if we consider that the universe
and our life is based on the balance between positive and negative
we can clearly see that this balance can not be altered otherwise the
balance would kill all the system.

"If" All this says is if we assume karma, then we will clearly see karma.
That's circular and devoid of meaning.

This universe has been here for billions and billions of years so this
means that the balance has always prevail.

Actually, the universe has been changing all during that time. The law of entropy makes that clear. No such balance has prevailed.
You're just making vague assertions without any substance to them.

[Confused Ape]

And if i get stuck on an island with nothing else to
eat other than seafood i certainly would eat seafood
in order to survive even if i knew that by eating
non sentient food i would be unable to carry on with
my meditation and spiritual growth to a degree.

So, humans evolved to be omnivores and not eating meat or seafood is a choice made for ethical or spiritual reasons. There's nothing wrong with that. The vegetarians and vegans who get laughed at are the ones who are so divorced from the natural world that they deny the results of evolution. When I was researching Vitamin B12, some of the vegans online were horrified by the idea of how to get B12 into their vegetables. "Eeew, animal poo!! That's disgusting!!!"

but there is something that you tend to ignore.
Palm trees attract the rain with their green cover.
The roots of these trees hold the water so they prevent
floods and keep the soil moist and this soil is not washed away.

The trees in the rain forests do that as well.

The poor farmers that before were almost starving now
have a way to survive.

People who have been living in the rain forest have been evicted to make way for palm plantations - Indonesia is seeing a new corporate colonialism'

Multinational companies have been encouraged to seize and deforest land owned by indigenous people, say human rights groups.

Land conflicts between farmers and plantation owners, mining companies and developers have raged across Indonesia as local and multinational companies have been encouraged to seize and then deforest customary land – land owned by indigenous people and administered in accordance with their customs. More than 600 were recorded in 2011, with 22 deaths and hundreds of injuries. The true number is probably far greater, say watchdog groups.

The Indonesian national human rights commission reported more than 5,000 human rights violations last year, mostly linked to deforestation by corporations. "Deaths of farmers caused by the increase in agrarian conflicts all across Indonesia are increasing," said Henry Saragih, founder of the Indonesian Peasant Union, which has 700,000 members.

"The presence of palm oil plantations has spawned a new poverty and is triggering a crisis of landlessness and hunger. Human rights violations keep occurring around natural resources in the country and intimidation, forced evictions and torture are common," said Saragih. "There are thousands of cases that have not surfaced. Many remain hidden, especially by local authorities," he says.

There's more because palm plantations need workers - Indonesia's Palm Oil Industry Rife With Human-Rights Abuses

The human costs of the palm oil boom, however, have been largely overlooked. A nine-month investigation of the industry, including interviews with workers at or near 12 plantations on Borneo and Sumatra—two islands that hold 96 percent of Indonesia’s palm oil operations—revealed widespread abuses of basic human rights. Among the estimated 3.7 million workers in the industry are thousands of child laborers and workers who face dangerous and abusive conditions. Debt bondage is common, and traffickers who prey on victims face few, if any, sanctions from business or government officials.

All in all we loose a lot but not all is lost as oppose to
soya which is grown mainly to feed cattle for meat eating people.

Now you may think that i am in favor of palm plantation.
No, i am not at all, i only point out that not all is lost and that
soya grown for feeding cattle is much much worse than palm oil.

Soybean

The plant is classed as an oilseed rather than a pulse by the UN Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO).

The oil is used in many industrial applications.

Soybean -Other Products

Soybeans are also used in industrial products, including oils, soap, cosmetics, resins, plastics, inks, crayons, solvents, and clothing. Soybean oil is the primary source of biodiesel in the United States, accounting for 80% of domestic biodiesel production.[103] Soybeans have also been used since 2001 as fermenting stock in the manufacture of a brand of vodka.[104] In 1936, Ford Motor Company developed a method where soybeans and fibers were rolled together producing a soup which was then pressed into various parts for their cars, from the distributor cap to knobs on the dash board. Ford also informed in public relation releases that in 1935 over five million acres (20,000 km2) was dedicated to growing soybeans in the United States.[105]

Is cattle feed the main reason for growing soybeans or is cheap feed for cattle just a by product because not enough humans eat soymeal and other soy food products? Would the world going vegetarian end soybean growing? What about corn?

Corn - Agricultural Marketing Research Center

U.S. corn production is used for livestock feed (37%), food products (11%) and ethanol production (40%). Use as livestock feed totaled 4.6 billion bushels in 2011, while 5 billion bushels were used to produce ethanol. However, one of the by-products of ethanol production is distillers grains, which are subsequently used as livestock feed.

The remaining uses of corn include seed production, other industrial uses and exports.

Ethanol Fuel

Ethanol fuel is ethanol (ethyl alcohol), the same type of alcohol found in alcoholic beverages. It is most often used as a motor fuel, mainly as a biofuel additive for gasoline. World ethanol production for transport fuel tripled between 2000 and 2007 from 17 billion to more than 52 billion liters. From 2007 to 2008, the share of ethanol in global gasoline type fuel use increased from 3.7% to 5.4%.[1] In 2011 worldwide ethanol fuel production reached 22.36 billion U.S. liquid gallons (bg) (84.6 billion liters), with the United States as the top producer with 13.9 bg (52.6 billion liters), accounting for 62.2% of global production, followed by Brazil with 5.6 bg (21.1 billion liters).[2] Ethanol fuel has a "gasoline gallon equivalency" (GGE) value of 1.5 US gallons (5.7 L), which means 1.5 gallons of ethanol produces the energy of one gallon of gasoline.[3]

Bioethanol is a form of quasi-renewable energy that can be produced from agricultural feedstocks. It can be made from very common crops such as sugar cane, potato, cassava and corn. There has been considerable debate about how useful bioethanol is in replacing gasoline. Concerns about its production and use relate to increased food prices due to the large amount of arable land required for crops,[11] as well as the energy and pollution balance of the whole cycle of ethanol production, especially from corn.[12][13] Recent developments with cellulosic ethanol production and commercialization may allay some of these concerns.[14]

Some of the other industrial uses of corn.

Some industrial uses of corn include filler for plastics, packing materials, insulating materials, adhesives, chemicals, explosives, paint, paste, abrasives, dyes, insecticides, pharmaceuticals, organic acids, solvents, rayon, antifreeze, soaps, and many more.

This is no excuse for putting animals in factory farms where they exist in misery, of course, so we can still be vegetarians for ethical and spiritual reasons. Everyone going vegetarian would cut down corn growing by 37% at the moment but the saving could soon be lost by increased production for ethanol.

Genetic mutation happen all the time that is why i fight to
mutate towards infinity rather than animality as denialists do.

The way we're wrecking the planet, there won't be any healthy bodies available for next time round, all supposing reincarnation is true, of course.

This is a very interesting topic Ape.

I'm enjoying it because it's giving me reasons to research a lot of information.

Everything in this universe is moving.
Nothing stay the same so you go up or you go down
loosing all the past gains if you go down.

If we humans cause our own extinction you'll be obliged to come back as a life form which might survive a devastated planet. How do you fancy being a rat or a cockroach.

[Little Rik]

If we humans cause our own extinction you'll be obliged to come back as a life form which might survive a devastated planet. How do you fancy being a rat or a cockroach

Gee, Ape you put so many questions and so many different topics
that to reply to all it would take me too much time that at the
moment i don't have so i only answer to your last question.
It is true that a debt will have to be REpaid but you got to remember that
you pay your own debt not somebody else debts.
As far as i am not incurring in nasty debts i am not worry in being reborn
as a rat.

[Confused Ape]

It is true that a debt will have to be REpaid but you got to remember that
you pay your own debt not somebody else debts.
As far as i am not incurring in nasty debts i am not worry in being reborn
as a rat.

What happens if humans become extinct because of the way our species is wrecking the planet? Even if you don't incur any nasty debts there won't be any human bodies available to come back in.

If rats survive and humans don't it means that rats will be a successful life form when humans weren't. Nothing wrong with being born as a rat under those circumstances.

[Little Rik]

This also answer rasetsu question when she ask about karmik law.
She ask......how do i know?
I rely on maths.
2+2=4 not any other number so if we consider that the universe
and our life is based on the balance between positive and negative
we can clearly see that this balance can not be altered otherwise the
balance would kill all the system.

"If" All this says is if we assume karma, then we will clearly see karma.
That's circular and devoid of meaning.

If is usually an hypothesis.
What happen in reality it is not an hypothesis.
In the physical world there can not be any progress.
It never was it never is and never will so this is not an if or an hypothesis.
The positive is always balanced by the negative
and the opposite.
This is a physical law.
If you study the law of physics you should know.
Of course you may think that this law of balancing
doesn't have to apply to man actions.
If this is the case than we should think that a man born
blind or cripple is just due to bad luck.
To me this sort of thinking is none but a mental masturbation
but you never know rasu the most incredible things sometime
turn to be true.
Sometime i also dream that i can find a big nugget of gold
when i dig my garden.

This universe has been here for billions and billions of years so this
means that the balance has always prevail.

Actually, the universe has been changing all during that time. The law of entropy makes that clear. No such balance has prevailed.
You're just making vague assertions without any substance to them.

I can change (i grow in age) but i still can stand on my two feet physically speaking.
Mentally and spiritually i also change, yet i still can keep away from dementia or death so a change does not mean annihilation or lack of balance.

---

It is true that a debt will have to be REpaid but you got to remember that
you pay your own debt not somebody else debts.
As far as i am not incurring in nasty debts i am not worry in being reborn
as a rat.

What happens if humans become extinct because of the way our species is wrecking the planet? Even if you don't incur any nasty debts there won't be any human bodies available to come back in.

If rats survive and humans don't it means that rats will be a successful life form when humans weren't. Nothing wrong with being born as a rat under those circumstances.

Your point of view is rather materialistic.
You sort of come to the conclusion that this material reality is real
so if the planet or the universe goes then nothing is left
or if this planet is wrecked there want be any life.
Actually this universe and this material reality is not a real reality
for the creator.
All this is in his mind and the stage or stages (different dimensions) can be REcreated to suit any different stage of consciousness so it does not matter what other people have done or destroyed.
You will come back in a dimension fit for your karma.
I just post something regarding how the system works.
You may look in this thread.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-8067-page-66.html

[Confused Ape]

Your point of view is rather materialistic.
You sort of come to the conclusion that this material reality is real
so if the planet or the universe goes then nothing is left
or if this planet is wrecked there want be any life.
Actually this universe and this material reality is not a real reality
for the creator.

Indian Philosophy Simplified

The Basic Concepts of Advaita Vedanta

(1) Brahman is the Ultimate, Supreme Reality. Brahman is eternal. Brahman is beyond words. It is beyond names and forms. Brahman can not be perceived nor could it be described by words. It is beyond senses and intellect. It is indefinable. However, if at all it has to be described; Brahman can be considered as Pure Consciousness.

In Vedanta philosophy, the svaroop of Brahman is referred to as Sachchidananda. Brahman is Sachchidananda i.e. Sat-Chitta-Ananda(Pure Existence-Pure Consciousness-Pure Bliss). Brahman is eternal, immutable, inexpressible and unthinkable pure-existence, but it is not the cause or the creator of the universe.

(3) Maya is the unique power (shakti) of Brahman.

(4) Brahman manifests itself in the world with the help of Maya. The world and the world objects come into existence due to the power of maya. Maya and its creation is termed illusory. It does not mean that the world is not real. Unreality and illusion are different. An illusion may not be an unreality for an illusion is grounded in reality. Reality is that which exists on its own. Maya is dependent on Brahman. Maya has created the world of appearances. So the world is illusion. But this does not mean at all that the world is non-existent. The AdvaitaVedanta, with the help of the famous “rope–snake” illustration, maintains that ‘it is neither ultimately real, nor wholly unreal, illusory and non existent.’

(5) Avidya (ignorance) has its seat in the human intellect. Avidya means not only absence of knowledge, but also erroneous knowledge. A man trapped in Avidya does not know what is real and thinks that the appearances are real. An individual identifies himself with empirical self. He equates his existence with the physical body. Under the influence of Maya and Avidya, he dissociates himself from the Ultimate Reality. When the man acquires knowledge, the duality of the self and Brahman disappears. He realizes that the self is really one with Brahman. This realization of the self puts an end to the ignorance (avidya).

Is this the kind of thing you mean? How I interpret this is the world itself is real but human beliefs about what the world is can be illusory. A cow in a factory farm is a manifestation of Brahman in the physical world but this doesn't mean that the cow's suffering isn't real.

All this is in his mind and the stage or stages (different dimensions) can be REcreated to suit any different stage of consciousness so it does not matter what other people have done or destroyed.

Jainworld com has a List of Organizations of Animal care and Nonviolent Activities. I'm guessing this means that Jains are allowed to support non-violent campaigns to stop other people doing harm to living things.

Jainism LITERATURE CENTER

(Our Pratikraman emphasizes very strongly on the degree of carefulness that we should exercise, even to the smallest insects. Ahimsa - harmlessness and protection to all living beings - is the very first vow for all the Jain householders and monks.)

Today, I will explain the point of non-violence beyond vegetarianism. It's not just being a vegetarian that assures you to be a true Jain. You also have to be aware of the world and the organisms around you. It is of great importance to be a vegetarian, but you still have to contemplate on not inflicting pain to the organisms that have shared our earth beautifully for billions of years. We need to explain a fact that it is important for us to support other organisms' needs, the way they support ours.

The first Anuvrat displays countless ideas that are of most prominent importance. It states that you should refrain from violence towards all living creatures, whether the organism be of one, two, three, four, or five senses. You should not commit the act of violence in three ways, 1 personally, 2 asking, or 3 encouraging others to do so. And by three means, which are, 1 mental, 2 verbal, and 3 physical. Until we make a point to abide by these rules, living creatures will never be safe from human beings.

Five of the most immoral acts that must be eluded are as follows: never refrain animals from their most deserved freedom by tying strong cords, or putting them in cages. Never inflict pain upon an animal by attacking with sticks or hitting by any other means. Another painful act which is to be avoided is the act of piercing the nose, the ear, or any other limb. Your should also never overlay an animal with any kind of unbearable weight. Finally, you should never deprive an animal of it's food or water with evil intention.

While walking, we may have pained or separated from life a wide variety of lives. We should realize that when we kill live earth, seeds, plants, or live water, even if not intentional, this act is completely wrong. But it is O.K. if you walk with the state of mind that you should feel sorry towards the organisms that you may be hurting. It is not wrong to walk, but accept the fact, that you may be, even if not intentionally, hurting other beings. If you have inflicted pain upon, crushed, tortured, attacked, or killed an organism, it would be wise to ask for your sins' forgiveness. It's up to us to respect all life in this world.

You will come back in a dimension fit for your karma.
I just post something regarding how the system works.
You may look in this thread.

From the Jainism article.

The aim of following Jainism is to get liberated from the cycle of births and deaths, by getting rid of all the Karmas. A liberated soul gets infinite, absolute, and complete knowledge, vision, and strength. Until liberated, a soul keeps going through the cycle of births in various lives, such as a human, an animal, a bird, in insect, bacteria, plants, etc. In all these lives, there are more pains than pleasures. But there are none of these pains in the Moksha, where a soul reaches upon Nirvana.

But it is not possible to get salvation without completely getting rid of attachments and passions. Accordingly, the passions such as anger, greed, jealousy, hatred, intrigue, etc. are declared enemies of the soul. Conquering them is the very first tenet of Jainism. At the same time, love and compassion for every soul in the universe is emphasized.

How can we be certain about what karma we're earning? What if an emphasis on 'my liberation' 'my good karma' 'my body in my next life' earns bad karma if we aren't concerned with what gets harmed so don't bother working to save the planet and living things on it?

I shall carry on being materialistic because I've never found any convincing evidence that being at one with the universe or whatever is anything more than a subjective experience. While I'm here I'll carry on being concerned about animal welfare, humans rights and ecology. If this means I'll come back as a rat next time round because reincarnation is real and I'm not spiritual enough I'll still be a manifestation of Brahman.

[Creed of Heresy]

---

The universe is made out of matter, water, light, air and space so
these elements can not possibly rule the karma law.
They themselves are ruled by the karma law or the balance in
this universe would be lost.
When the balance in this universe is altered in some part then we
usually have some big bang or other phenomena that cause changes.
As this happen in the universe it also happen in the more
conscious world.
A tiny ant if positioned in the wrong place can cause an avalanche but
at the end the order will be restored.
We are often if not always in disbelieve when we see a plane crashed
or young innocent girls raped and killed but we never think that
this is due to bad karma.
How would you know whether these people were in previous lives
rapist or murderers themselves?
According to statistics the cops are only able to arrest less than 10%
of criminals and even these criminals will not pay back their debt
properly by being in jail so there got to be an other way to have
these criminals to pay back their debt.
You borrow money from a bank and you can be sure that the bank
will always get back their money with the interests.
If not all the system would collapse
Just imagine if we could get money for free!
It never happen and never will.
Debts are always collected in every plane of life.



This also answer rasetsu question when she ask about karmik law.
She ask......how do i know?
I rely on maths.
2+2=4 not any other number so if we consider that the universe
and our life is based on the balance between positive and negative
we can clearly see that this balance can not be altered otherwise the
balance would kill all the system.
This universe has been here for billions and billions of years so this
means that the balance has always prevail.

---

I got like two lines into that rambling pile of nonsense and half-baked mumbo-jumbo and immediately realized how pointless it is to try to use logic and reason with someone who believes that kind of absurdity that you believe in.

Long story short: You keep making wild leaps to conclusions with no evidence to back them up other than conjecture. You have no solid evidence, just your own personal delusions. Just like a schizophrenic, you are convinced your truth is the truth, no matter how much reality proves otherwise. And just like a schizophrenic, there is no point debating anything reasonable with you, because just like a schizophrenic, the part of your brain that deals with logic is irreparably impaired and/or damaged.

Sucks to be you, hombre. Not my problem if you wanna convince yourself that magnets can cure cancer and crystals will make you live forever or whatever other horseshit you put your baseless faith into.

After all, it's suckers like you that provide the intellectual cushion for people like me to walk on.

[Cyberman]

---

If is usually an hypothesis.
What happen in reality it is not an hypothesis.
In the physical world there can not be any progress.
It never was it never is and never will so this is not an if or an hypothesis.
The positive is always balanced by the negative
and the opposite.
This is a physical law.
If you study the law of physics you should know.
Of course you may think that this law of balancing
doesn't have to apply to man actions.
If this is the case than we should think that a man born
blind or cripple is just due to bad luck.
To me this sort of thinking is none but a mental masturbation
but you never know rasu the most incredible things sometime
turn to be true.
Sometime i also dream that i can find a big nugget of gold
when i dig my garden.

---

It's like Deepak Chopra and Yoko Ono had unprotected drunken sex one night and then dumped the result in Björk's attic.