Jesus' Wife

[*Deidre*]

I've often wondered about that "wedding at Cana."

[Minimalist]

Written by a Jewish Christian missionary to the Gentiles who formerly led a devout life as a Pharisee even to the point of persecuting those he thought were guilty of blasphemy.

That is the story they tell. But early xtian writers like Justyn Martyr never seem to have heard of this "missionary to the gentiles" and Justyn was one of those gentiles. Justyn did hear of Marcion, though.

I haven't come across this objection before so I'll look more into it.

About this time it was that the people of Damascus, out of their hatred to Ptolemaeus, the son of Mennaeus, invited Aretas [to take the government], and made him king of Coele Syria.

Josephus - The Jewish War, Bk 1

This Scaurus was sent into Syria from Armenia by Pompey the Great, when he fought against Tigranes; so Scaurus came to Damascus, which had been lately taken by Metellus and Lollius, and caused them to leave the place; and, upon his hearing how the affairs of Judea stood, he made haste thither as to a certain booty.

Same - Chapter 5

There is a briefer mention of all this in Antiquities of the Jews. Pompey's command in the East lasted from 68-61 BC when he celebrated a triumph. Among other things he had added 4 new provinces to the Empire, including Coele Syria which included Damascus.

I must ask though, if this is the case as you describe, would this make correct historical references to persons or events in other New Testament writings, such as Paul's other epistles, serve to strengthen the common first-century dating for many of them?

Does the fact that Atlanta and the American Civil War are depicted in Gone With The Wind make it less of a novel? Paris and London are mentioned at length in A Tale of Two Cities. It is still fiction.

I'm not so sure about that. Granted, the historical Jesus leaves little trace in the New Testament although I think some facts can be reliably gleaned: He was a Jew from Galilee, probably born in Nazareth, was very devout and charismatic in his faith but placed a very liberal and perhaps Hellenistic spin on it, perhaps had powerful religious delusions and thought he was a god or at the very least had prophetic status,

That's the story. "Facts?" Those are in very short supply.

[Mudhammam]

Written by a Jewish Christian missionary to the Gentiles who formerly led a devout life as a Pharisee even to the point of persecuting those he thought were guilty of blasphemy.

That is the story they tell. But early xtian writers like Justyn Martyr never seem to have heard of this "missionary to the gentiles" and Justyn was one of those gentiles. Justyn did hear of Marcion, though.

I haven't come across this objection before so I'll look more into it.

About this time it was that the people of Damascus, out of their hatred to Ptolemaeus, the son of Mennaeus, invited Aretas [to take the government], and made him king of Coele Syria.

Josephus - The Jewish War, Bk 1

This Scaurus was sent into Syria from Armenia by Pompey the Great, when he fought against Tigranes; so Scaurus came to Damascus, which had been lately taken by Metellus and Lollius, and caused them to leave the place; and, upon his hearing how the affairs of Judea stood, he made haste thither as to a certain booty.

Same - Chapter 5

There is a briefer mention of all this in Antiquities of the Jews. Pompey's command in the East lasted from 68-61 BC when he celebrated a triumph. Among other things he had added 4 new provinces to the Empire, including Coele Syria which included Damascus.

I must ask though, if this is the case as you describe, would this make correct historical references to persons or events in other New Testament writings, such as Paul's other epistles, serve to strengthen the common first-century dating for many of them?

Does the fact that Atlanta and the American Civil War are depicted in Gone With The Wind make it less of a novel? Paris and London are mentioned at length in A Tale of Two Cities. It is still fiction.

I'm not so sure about that. Granted, the historical Jesus leaves little trace in the New Testament although I think some facts can be reliably gleaned: He was a Jew from Galilee, probably born in Nazareth, was very devout and charismatic in his faith but placed a very liberal and perhaps Hellenistic spin on it, perhaps had powerful religious delusions and thought he was a god or at the very least had prophetic status,

That's the story. "Facts?" Those are in very short supply.

Have you read a lot of the early church fathers? I'm intrigued by how much you know about them and how little value you seem to place in their ability to shed light on the historical narrative of early Christianity. What is the narrative that you think best fits the data?

[Confused Ape]

But early xtian writers like Justyn Martyr never seem to have heard of this "missionary to the gentiles" and Justyn was one of those gentiles. Justyn did hear of Marcion, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Martyr

Eusebius implies that other works were in circulation; from St Irenaeus he knows of the apology "Against Marcion," and from Justin's "Apology"[23] of a "Refutation of all Heresies "

The Against Marcion is lost, as is the Refutation of all Heresies to which Justin himself refers in Apology, i. 26

I think it was more the case that Justin refused to acknowledge Paul. He was only concerned with writing about the 'true apostles' who were with Jesus. There was no way he could have written a book against the Marcion heresy without knowing anything of Paul.

While I was looking into all this I discovered that Justin's works against Marcion and All Heresies mysteriously disappeared round about the time that Tertullian wrote his own work against Marcion. Tertullian said that Marcion had tampered with the text of the letters so he was restoring the originals. Since then I''ve wondered what Justin said about Paul in those missing books.

My guess is that if there ever were any authentic letters they were rewritten twice. Marcion altered the text to suit his views and then Tertullian altered them again to suit his own.