NA/AA is bogus

[archangle]

Dude, I don't have it out for you anymore than I do anybody else that whines about people when they themselves have problems.

Are you talking to yourself?

definitely at times.

But I never blamed religion for a people problem. If you got popped in the pooper by a pastor, it was the pastor.

[vorlon13]

And maybe something not widely known about 12 step meetings:

there are women only meetings

Hispanic, or I should say, Spanish language meetings

There are 'open' gay meetings (you don't have to be gay, but be advised, most everyone else there is)

No smoking meetings have evolved over the years; when I first started, I lived in a town of 150,000 people, and there was precisely 1 no smoking meeting, and it turned out that was imposed by the church where the meeting was, I was the only actual non-smoker at the meeting. These days, most meetings are non smoking, and more actual non-smokers attend. There is a meeting I occasionally attend that allows smoking, but for some reason, the smokers sit opposite the exhaust fan, and that's where the non-smokers are supposed to sit, so the fumes waft over that side of the room. It's their way of making it a 'smoking only' meeting.

Meetings can be quite 'rigid' in how they approach 12 stepping, and others tend towards, for lack of a better word, a more liberal take on things. My first group was very strict. At the time, I had nothing to compare to, so it wasn't an issue, but nowadays, the 'strict' meetings seem pretty few and far between, I find myself missing the blood and guts variety.

Some groups are quite social, after a meeting some/most will go out for a meal or coffee. My first group was not social. At all. You were there for sobriety, no distractions.

Most groups in a given metro will be listed in a little booklet called the Where and When. It lists times, locations, handicap accessibility (some church basements are still not wheelchair friendly), some meetings have signing for the deaf. Some meetings are alcoholics only, others allow the public in if they want.

I have encountered Muslim, Jewish and Mormon alcoholics. I know a kid that had 5 years of sobriety on his 21st birthday when it was finally legal for him to drink.

Some facilities are 'owned' and managed as AA only concerns. Usually, somebody has died and left a major bequest to be used in that way. There will be a committee governing the facility.

There are 'private' meetings that operate under the radar, so to speak. There is an NA meeting in a home I have worked in a few times. That meeting has never been listed anywhere, they work via word of mouth, if you need to be there, someone lets you know. Sometimes teen meetings are held in a specific high school, those tend not to be listed either.

I have been in speaker meetings (someone addresses the crowd for an hour) with 500 people. I've also been in meetings with just 3 or 4 people in attendance.

Some sponsors will have meetings for just their sponsees. (disclaimer: I'm not big on sponsorship, but it has it's place)

Some companies, if large enough, might have a 12 step meeting for just their employees. I worked at a place that had one and I NEVER went, btw, LOL.

I currently live in a rural backwater, and even out here, there are meetings. I'd rather not know which locals are (and aren't!) there, so I go to a nearby city for meetings. There are some locals that know of my background, however. Generally, if you're local, and I've told you about my 12 stepping, it means, even if I don't say it, that I think you need to go.

I have encountered people that have managed to quit drinking 100% by themselves, and good for them, although, IMO, a couple of them would benefit ENORMOUSLY from going to a meeting.

[Chas]

AA/NA never claims to be the cure for addiction. Find it in the literature and show me where they say, "you will no longer be an addict if you work the steps." In fact, they say the exact opposite. There is no cure. You will always be an addict. It is absolutely a disease. A life threatening disease, with no cure. Hence the phrase "one day at a time."

Allready in the Big Book of AA, it is claimed that the old myth "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" will be shattered by the book.
Besides; what negative consequences of drinking could you get if you don't drink?

---

Addiction is most certainly at least a mental disease, and many substances are physically addictive. I assume you've gone through withdrawal?

Why do you assume that? I haven't taken a controlled substance in many years.

If you've never gone through withdrawal then your statements about addiction are all ignorant bullshit.

---

If AA works for some people, fine, but it appears to be a method to shoehorn religion or spirituality into place where the addiction was. The real problem is that it also it appears that much of the reputation that 12-step programs enjoy is more mythology than fact, and the courts and doctors should recognize that.

Addiction becomes a highly complex issue when you delve into the motivations behind it, and there is no one-size-fits-all cure that everyone should be pointed to. It needs to be done on a case by case basis and treatment needs to be tailored to the addict if we want it to truly be effective.

Maybe, maybe not. You have provided no evidence for your assertions.

[vorlon13]

I've heard this said a few times, and know it is applicable to myself; what's different about how alcohol acts on me is that I only 'feel' the effects as my BAC is rising. If it is steady, or declining, even at a very high level, it just ain't 'doing it' for me.