A Serious Question For Theists

[Jackalope]

That's odd, because an endless procession of theists have said the exact opposite: that I had to believe in order to experience god (which I personally did for a long time, to no avail).

Which is it?

That's why you don't believe anymore.

That doesn't answer the question - I know damn well why I don't believe any more. Why are you right, and they wrong? Why should I believe the bullshit you're selling, as opposed to the bullshit that they're selling?

You can't both be right.

[Tonus]

Like I've said many times before, you can't discover the supernatural by purely natural processes. The signs are there in the structure of the universe and in living creatures, but you're blind to them, because you've limited your options in interpreting them.

But experience shows that we can arrive at a consensus regarding natural processes because we can create testable hypotheses and our theories can be improved or even replaced as we learn more. In thousands of years, there is no consensus on supernatural explanations for anything, be it natural or supernatural. Even people with the same core religious beliefs will differ on explanations. And since we are dealing with the supernatural, there is not a single testable claim to be made.

You are correct, we have limited our options in interpreting the world and universe around us. We have limited them to those things that can be tested, and pushed away the wild speculation that forms the myriad conflicting beliefs and claims of religion. The religious person pushes away most of the supernatural for the same reason he grasps onto a small portion of it: just because.

Remember: the theist dismisses most claims of the supernatural and accepts only those that fit into his particular religious faith. I treat your god the way you treat everyone else's. In that sense, I'm only slightly more limited and stubborn than you are. But I'm much more consistent.

[Simon Moon]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. You must experience God in order to believe in him. If you're closed to him, you won't recognize his influence on the world around you and you won't see how he has changed the lives of those who believe in him. Like I've said many times before, you can't discover the supernatural by purely natural processes. The signs are there in the structure of the universe and in living creatures, but you're blind to them, because you've limited your options in interpreting them.

The proof of the the pudding is in the eating. You must experience Vishnu in order to believe in him. If you're closed to him, you won't recognize his influence on the world around you and you won't see how he has changed the lives of those that believe in him.

Are you convinced?

You don't know if the universe was created or always existed, but you're unwilling to accept anything but a scientific explanation. So far you haven't found one, but you keep searching. It could be God, but you won't open up to the possibility.

What I am not willing to do is fill in unknowns with "god did it". When an answer is unknown, the only honest answer is "we don't know yet".

I am open to the possibility that a god created the universe. But until I am convinced by evidence and reasoned argument, I have no justification to believe it is true. Why should I?

[Lek]

That's why you don't believe anymore.

That doesn't answer the question - I know damn well why I don't believe any more. Why are you right, and they wrong? Why should I believe the bullshit you're selling, as opposed to the bullshit that they're selling?

You can't both be right.

My opinion is that if you believe in God and don't experience him, then you won't remain a believer for long. Sorry I disagree with all those other believers you talked to, but that's how I feel.

[Jackalope]

That doesn't answer the question - I know damn well why I don't believe any more. Why are you right, and they wrong? Why should I believe the bullshit you're selling, as opposed to the bullshit that they're selling?

You can't both be right.

My opinion is that if you believe in God and don't experience him, then you won't remain a believer for long. Sorry I disagree with all those other believers you talked to, but that's how I feel.

I understand that's how you feel and that you disagree with them. What I'm getting at is that there does not appear to be a reliable way to know how to experience god.

I wonder why that is? One would think that a god who wants to be experienced wouldn't make the process so mysterious.

[Lek]

My opinion is that if you believe in God and don't experience him, then you won't remain a believer for long. Sorry I disagree with all those other believers you talked to, but that's how I feel.

I understand that's how you feel and that you disagree with them. What I'm getting at is that there does not appear to be a reliable way to know how to experience god.

I wonder why that is? One would think that a god who wants to be experienced wouldn't make the process so mysterious.

Nothing mysterious about it. You seek with him with sincerity, not looking for just what pleases yourself, but for who he really is.

[Mudhammam]

I understand that's how you feel and that you disagree with them. What I'm getting at is that there does not appear to be a reliable way to know how to experience god.

I wonder why that is? One would think that a god who wants to be experienced wouldn't make the process so mysterious.

Nothing mysterious about it. You seek with him with sincerity, not looking for just what pleases yourself, but for who he really is.

And then, amazingly, you'll find that he is precisely as the fellow believers in your region taught all along.

[Eye of God]

No one asked you to come here and post pointless replies and baseless threats and accusations.

Read the OP stupid. The question WAS ASKED OF ME, I am a theist. You should think before you let your fingers move.

Nobody here cares what you believe, you silly loon.

That may be true you uncouth baboon, but the questions was still asked, which means the invitation was given, and YOU are a fool who needs to pay far more attention to what he writes.

[Jackalope]

I understand that's how you feel and that you disagree with them. What I'm getting at is that there does not appear to be a reliable way to know how to experience god.

I wonder why that is? One would think that a god who wants to be experienced wouldn't make the process so mysterious.

Nothing mysterious about it. You seek with him with sincerity, not looking for just what pleases yourself, but for who he really is.

Been there, done that. LOL - it always comes down to "you were doing it wrong". How the holy fuck would you know? Why should we believe you, take your word for it?

[Rampant.A.I.]

No one asked you to come hereand post pointless replies and baseless threats and accusations.

Read the OP stupid. The question WAS ASKED OF ME, I am a theist. You should think before you let your fingers move.

Bolded the important part for you.

Nobody here cares what you believe, you silly loon.

That may be true you uncouth baboon, but the questions was still asked, which means the invitation was given, and YOU are a fool who needs to pay far more attention to what he writes.

They're asking you questions to watch your apologist acrobatics for entertainment, and to see what kind of ridiculousness you'll come up with.
Besides, it's clear from your reply that you didn't actually read the OP, and are doing exactly what the OP asked you not to do instead of presenting an argument supported by evidence.

The OP of this thread:

So, really. Don't give me 'bible verses' or already refuted arguments and call it evidence. Give me some real evidence that your god exists. If you can't find any, that's because it really doesn't.

You posted:

The Bible is our only evidence. It was inspired by the Creator of the universe. I need no other evidence.

The burden of proof only lies on me if I am bringing the message to you. You are the one demanding the answers.

Dance, monkey, dance.