A Serious Question For Theists

[Esquilax]

In your anger do not sin: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.  Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you."  (Ephesians 4:26, 29 31-32)

A wise man restrains his anger and overlooks insults.  This is too his credit." (Proverbs 19:11, LB)

Surprised at you GC!

I'm sure he'll be along presently to assert to us, sans evidence, that read in context those verses actually mean it's encouraged to be angry and insulting all the time, because we don't know the bible.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

In your anger do not sin: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.  Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you."  (Ephesians 4:26, 29 31-32)

A wise man restrains his anger and overlooks insults.  This is too his credit." (Proverbs 19:11, LB)

Surprised at you GC!

It's cool, the blood of Jesus has got his ass covered.

It's a healthy dose of self flagellation to sort this sin out though. Jesus ain't no punk.

Oh wait, sorry, wrong Christian sect.

[ska88]

Here's a question for every theist and creationist out there.

What evidence or arguments do you have for a god?

As far as I've seen, we've been able to refute nearly all the arguments and rationalize all of the evidence you have. Do you have any legitimate support for the 'god' you claim?

The reason I'm asking for this proof is that the burden of proof always lies on the person making the claim.

It's obvious that theists have made the claim that there is a 'god' or some higher power. There are hundreds of religions. Each one is a claim to be the true belief. Religion is claiming a deity.

Yet despite this, theists fight tooth and nail to shift the burden of proof to atheists. We are just skeptics. Until any religion provides evidence for a claim, we must assume that god does not exist.

So, really. Don't give me 'bible verses' or already refuted arguments and call it evidence. Give me some real evidence that your god exists. If you can't find any, that's because it really doesn't.

ّI can provide many evidences to you.. But I don't think that anything would prove anything to you.. since "as you said" everyone has his own proof and claims !

But let's ask you the same question.. Do you have any proof that God doesn't exist?!

don't tell me science proves that.. cuz "to me" science actually prove the existence of God.


It simply depends on the person.. the personality itself.. some people are realistic they understand things using logic and experiments and some people are emotional .. they feel and sense things .. they always depend on their hearts to decide ! and some people "don't even think" .. they are not like you or me.. trying to seek the truth and search and think..they just want to live their lives with or without God that doesn't make a difference.. living like animals eat and drink and mate!

and many other personality types.. extremists.. idiots.. stupid.. blind.. dreamy.. etc!

So I think everyone thinks.. acts .. believe .. in their own way!

to me.. I can tell you my own experience with faith and why I chose to believe on God.. and since be a muslim.. as I believe its the last religion.. where I also believe on Christianity and Judaism and all the prophets and old books.. BUT.. would that make any evidence to you?!

I think if you are interested in God and really want to find him.. or make sure that he really exists or not.. you will find your own way .. and many resources are available ! No one else can convince you but you.

You have a free mind.. free choice.. and one life to search and decide.

You are right everyone claims that he has the absolute truth and sometimes with arrogance and extremism.. I don't like that either .. So I don't claim ever.. I just say "that's what I think" although I'm a strong believer I don't expect that others will accept what I believe on just because I have strong feelings that I'm on the straight path.

I used to invite people to Islam.. out of love ! You know when you feel that you know something great and want everyone to know about it? Or found the cure for something and wish that everyone can be cured ? That's why I used to invite people to Islam.. BUT then I realized that when someone wants to see the truth and seek it they will sooner or later.. but in their own ways.

I may talk and talk about Islam and provide evidences in many fields but still don't convince this person ! while a small experience like visiting a muslim country or listening to quran or etc.. make big influence on him!

But may I know .. why are curious about us believing on the existence of God?

[Esquilax]

But let's ask you the same question.. Do you have any proof that God doesn't exist?!

Burden of proof, look it up. While you're there, look up "agnostic atheist," and then understand just how mismatched that question is the the majority of the people reading your post. Also, perhaps you might like to consider the proposition of having to believe every claim until it has been proven false, a little bit, before you keep on down this road.

Please, do us all a favor and make sure you have all that done before you post here again.

[Jacob(smooth)]

In your anger do not sin: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.  Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you."  (Ephesians 4:26, 29 31-32)

A wise man restrains his anger and overlooks insults.  This is too his credit." (Proverbs 19:11, LB)

Surprised at you GC!

I'm sure he'll be along presently to assert to us, sans evidence, that read in context those verses actually mean it's encouraged to be angry and insulting all the time, because we don't know the bible.

Nah, I'm going to predict an apology. Believers should not be surprised when they are persecuted for their beliefs, the bible warned them it would happen. With time to reflect I think he'll realise that he got carried away and that his words went beyond helpful rebuke. I reckon the passive aggressive, don't expect anything else from a heathen but I should have behaved better, line will come out.

[Chas]

Fine, just do not expect me to believe you were ever a Christian. There was no agenda as you could see if you had read my reply to Tonus, also I'm not Drich or others.

GC

You are truly an arrogant twat. Who the fuck do you think you are to determine he was not a Christian?

Listen you blind ignorant idiot, I wasn't trying to determine anything I was looking for information, if people do not want to share fine, but if they do not then they shouldn't complain when I do not take them at their word. I've been told the very same thing, if I do not explain or give reason then I should not expect people to believe what I say. Just expect the same out of others as they expect out of me.

GC

I am neither blind nor ignorant. Look at what you said and reflect on the irony.

[Tonus]

Thank you for your response, but I wonder does anyone wanting to know God in a more meaningful way ever stop seeking. To me following is very good, it leads to experiences with others that could not be gained in any other way and grows one in character. However to seek God continually would be to know Him in deeper personal ways, ways that keeps one strong in their belief of who God is.

To me, you seek something that you have not found, then once you find it you want to learn more about it. If you had learned that you were an adopted child, you might decide to seek out your real parents. Once you find them, you no longer are seeking; now you want to know them better and maybe develop a deeper relationship.

To me, seeking god would work that same way. Having always known god, it was a case of strengthening the relationship by doing what he wanted of me and communicating with him via prayer and Bible study. In a way, it was the act of seeking him out that led me where I am today. I think many are in that same place, having found god before they sought him out. Those who actually do try to find him at least have the personal satisfaction of deciding for themselves that he is real before they start to worship.

[The Grand Nudger]

I may talk and talk about Islam and provide evidences in many fields but still don't convince this person ! while a small experience like visiting a muslim country or listening to quran or etc.. make big influence on him!

Agreed, taken as a social contract the umma is a seductive idea. It appeals to human beings very broadly - like all claims engineered to cast a wide net. I can see how the experience of a community is persuasive (especially relative to some whacko spitting out religious claims in a vacuum)...at the very least, community is real and can be experienced while djinn are, well, not.

[Whateverist]

I wonder if there are sure signs you would look for to determine if any self-proclaimed ex-xtian was ever a true xtian. I wonder if you think it is possible for someone who feels and thinks exactly what you do to lose faith and change their mind. Personally, I do think so.

I believe there are believers who change their belief, if I didn't I would be discounting scriptures, Paul said there are those who have fallen away. It's to bad some here can't believe I wanted to know why or if they challenged themselves to seek God on a regular bases. I was not looking for ammo against anyone. But they will believe what they will and there's nothing I can do to change their mistrust of Christians.

GC

Well you surprise but please me. On another website there is one regular fundamentalist Christian who always asserts that anyone says they used to be xtian was never "saved", "washed in the blood", "born again" .. or just plain never a true christian. You are a breath of fresh air.

[Welsh cake]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. You must experience God in order to believe in him. If you're closed to him, you won't recognize his influence on the world around you and you won't see how he has changed the lives of those who believe in him.

Terrible example.

I see what is going on in the world, and its political unrest, poverty, social anxiety, murdering and intolerance... and just plain chaos in general.

And that's just through my two little eyes.

Can you begin to comprehend and witness everyone's misery and suffering in the world?

I think you'd go insane if you made a sincere attempt to empathize with your fellow man's plight in this uncaring world.