Are men more likely to be outliers?

[Jenny A]

Of course another trend I have witnessed at times is girl being told by their mothers they can't do that career or have to behave this way. Though I will truly never understand how someone could cling to non sense, let alone use it bash their kids dreams.

It's also how people react to male and female aggression:

I am keenly aware that women who negotiate are often seen negatively in a way men are not.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arch...te/249368/

Similarly, my experience in law offices is that men who raise their voices are respected and women who do are seen as hysterical. Woman who lay people off are also viewed more harshly than men who perform the same action. (As you might of noticed from these forums I can be a tad aggressive now and then.)

Note, that like Megan McArdle in the linked article, I'm not making any demands about laws or regulations or telling you all you're sexist pigs, just observing that the same action can garner different reactions depending on the sex of the actor.

[TheGulegon]

Were there ever any "Mountain Women"? A female version of Jeremiah Jonson!
Ya know! Grizzly Adams meets Foxy Francine

[Lemonvariable72]

It's also how people react to male and female aggression:

I am keenly aware that women who negotiate are often seen negatively in a way men are not.

There is a point I would like to throw in there. Negotiating is traditionally a skill taught from father to son. Now I read the article, but I am a bit skeptical of how she paints the study as she doesn't cite and deals in absolutes. Now getting to my point negotiation is a skill, more often taught to men then women and becoming less taught all together. I actually think it's wrong to make a emotional judgement based on someones gender, and fucking moronic to treat them differently in negotiations on that fact.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arch...te/249368/

Similarly, my experience in law offices is that men who raise their voices are respected and women who do are seen as hysterical. Woman who lay people off are also viewed more harshly than men who perform the same action. (As you might of noticed from these forums I can be a tad aggressive now and then.)

Men who raise their voices are respected? Generally I call them assholes, and think the same of women who do it. Maybe I'm weird. As for the bit about women who lay people off being veiwed as worse, that is probably true, as I have had way more jobs then someone my age should've had and I can honestly say that from personal experience, 2 of the 3 worst managers I've had were women. On the surface that seems sexist, but delve deeper and look the behaviour of them and it has nothing to do with gender in my case. I can more into more detail if you ask, but I want to cut it short for brevity's sake.

Note, that like Megan McArdle in the linked article, I'm not making any demands about laws or regulations or telling you all you're sexist pigs, just observing that the same action can garner different reactions depending on the sex of the actor.

On that we can agree. And there are numerous examples. Like when a man speaks out at a feminist convention. (Yes I'm being facetious)

[Heywood]

I also hope this doesn't sound sexist, as I am certainly not. But I believe we should understand the differences between genders and peoples, AND afford everyone equal opportunity.

Today, women enrolled in college out number men....and they are getting better grades. This is a recent change.

In about 40 years this country will be run by women. The fact that you see more men in prominent positions today is merely an after effect of a bygone era. You are observing the slowing momentum of yesterday's culture.

[Jenny A]

Were there ever any "Mountain Women"? A female version of Jeremiah Jonson!
Ya know! Grizzly Adams meets Foxy Francine

No. But there were a surprising number of single female homesteaders. Women also fought in the Civil War. Mostly, we know about them because their sex was discovered once they became casualties.

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I also hope this doesn't sound sexist, as I am certainly not. But I believe we should understand the differences between genders and peoples, AND afford everyone equal opportunity.

Today, women enrolled in college out number men....and they are getting better grades. This is a recent change.

In about 40 years this country will be run by women. The fact that you see more men in prominent positions today is merely an after effect of a bygone era. You are observing the slowing momentum of yesterday's culture.

I doubt it. We are a greater percentage in college these days, but still clustered in the humanities department. I have a fifteen year old girl who is science oriented and bright. She's already making the techie colleges drool because there aren't so many of her.

And we are much more likely to take years off for child raising. That's what I did. Not every woman does, but many more of us than men do.

---

It's also how people react to male and female aggression:

I am keenly aware that women who negotiate are often seen negatively in a way men are not.

There is a point I would like to throw in there. Negotiating is traditionally a skill taught from father to son. Now I read the article, but I am a bit skeptical of how she paints the study as she doesn't cite and deals in absolutes. Now getting to my point negotiation is a skill, more often taught to men then women and becoming less taught all together. I actually think it's wrong to make a emotional judgement based on someones gender, and fucking moronic to treat them differently in negotiations on that fact.

I agree it's moronic to treat the same actions differently, but it isn't actually different treatment in negotiation, but afterwards because of the negotiations that McArdle was discussing. I did see a real difference. However, I'm sure you are also right that there may be some difference in negotiation style.

Men who raise their voices are respected? Generally I call them assholes, and think the same of women who do it.

I'm with you here as to what deserves respect. But I was in an office in which one partner threw his phone at the window in the middle of yelling at opposing council. Awe and a sort of respect was the result. A female of counsel yelled at opposing counsel on the phone the same day with rather more justification and the office comment was PMS.

As for the bit about women who lay people off being veiwed as worse, that is probably true, as I have had way more jobs then someone my age should've had and I can honestly say that from personal experience, 2 of the 3 worst managers I've had were women. On the surface that seems sexist, but delve deeper and look the behaviour of them and it has nothing to do with gender in my case. I can more into more detail if you ask, but I want to cut it short for brevity's sake.

Without the details I can make nothing of that except that I prefer to work for men. I typically know where I am with a man. With a woman I can get blindsided. If I guy doesn't like what I'm doing I typically know. With a women, I find out too late.

[Lemonvariable72]

I'm with you here as to what deserves respect. But I was in an office in which one partner threw his phone at the window in the middle of yelling at opposing council.

Sign of weakness as far as I'm concerned

Awe and a sort of respect was the result. A female of counsel yelled at opposing counsel on the phone the same day with rather more justification and the office comment was PMS.

Still a sign of weakness.

Without the details I can make nothing of that except that I prefer to work for men. I typically know where I am with a man. With a woman I can get blindsided. If I guy doesn't like what I'm doing I typically know. With a women, I find out too late.

Interestingly enough the dailymail seems to agree with me http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/articl...moody.html
Not all women make bad managers, but the 2 i was referring too were terrible. 1 position was at a gas station. She decided I was weird so she maxed out everyone else's hours and gave me maybe 18 a week, and everytime I asked for more hours or tried to take anouther employees shift I was denied, and one day she even freaked out in the middle of the store because I didn't dust the oil containers to her standard, after she had called another employee into work early because she wanted to go to the gym on her scheduled shift.
The other one would write you up if you looked the wrong way and kept trying to have sex with a taken male employee.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Seems to me that here in the West, women are raised and socialized to be more moderate in the approach to things, and as Jen has pointed out, those that aren't are viewed with dislike.

A more moderate approach could be expected to show more moderate results.

My two cents.