At least one Canadian get it.

[Mister Agenda]

Do you see that he closed the list with "Nothing to celebrate here."

In retrospect, my initial reply was unwarrantedly snarky. My apologies. It's really impossible to be sure what HW meant until he clarifies.

[Heywood]

Do you see that he closed the list with "Nothing to celebrate here."

In retrospect, my initial reply was unwarrantedly snarky. My apologies. It's really impossible to be sure what HW meant until he clarifies.

I don't not want to turn this thread into a thread about torture....we've been there and done that already. However to understand my position here...you need to understand my position about torture. So I will go into that a little bit now...but don't expect me to defend it vigorously as this isn't a thread about torture.

First, Torture is causing mental of physical pain for the purpose of punishment or to extract information. A child in a martial arts class might be required to stand in the "horse stance" for a specified amount of time as punishment for disrupting the class. This disciplinary action is torture because it satisfies the definition of torture. My position is that we use torture all the time in society often to great benefit. The problem with torture is when the severity of it is not justified. Horse stance for disrupting the class is okay...waterboarding for disrupting the class is not okay.

Second, I do not agree with the claim that torture does not work. Its not 100% effective but it is not 0% effective either. Its effectiveness and appropriateness is dependent on the situation. Horse stance and water boarding would both be effective in enforcing discipline in a martial arts class. However one is more appropriate than the other.

Third, sometimes the need for information is extremely urgent and torture might be the most effective means to obtain it. Or this situation might be that the need for information might be so great, that every possible means to obtain should be employed.

Now my position on torturing the gitmo prisoners is this. Incarceration is torture...so the question of whether or not we should torture is not relevant. We are already torturing them and continue to torture them. How much or what severity of torture should we employ is the question. The answer to that question depends on the situation. If the Russian's tell us some RA-115s were stolen and sold to Al Qaeda...I'd be okay with water boarding certain prisoners because that is a situation in which every possible avenue to obtain information should be used.....in my opinion.

Was it a good thing or bad thing that Obama lessened the amount of torture the detainees were subject too? I don't know. I don't have enough information to make a solid judgement. If they were water boarding for shits and giggles then yes...it is a good thing Obama ceased the practice. If they were waterboarding because they know Al Qaeda is in possession of an RA-115 and they are trying to locate it....then stopping selective use of water boarding is/was a mistake.

My gut tells me it was probably a good thing Obama stopped the practice of water boarding.....but really I don't know.

When I say "there is nothing to celebrate"....I say that because I don't see that the world has been made a better place because Obama is in office. If anything it is worse.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Are you really this dumb? Whether or not I am enlisted in the military has no bearing on my ability or right to be critical of Obama on how he leads that military.

It's easy to spend other people's sons. It's easy to send someone else overseas. Put your money where your mouth is. Go enlist in the armed forces; then I'll believe you mean what you say.

Only a moron would think you have to be in the military to say Obama made a mistake by pulling the troops out of Iraq.

Except, that isn't what I said. I said, very clearly, that talking shit online is certainly easier than enlisting. Are you so stupid you can't read proper English?

Wait, forget I asked that.

I didn't castigate your opinion. I pointed out your unwillingness to support your words with action.

You need some nootropics because you're not thinking very clearly.

My thinking is fine: I think you're a chickenhawk, perfectly willing to spill the blood of others even as you adjudge their actions as if you know half of what you're talking about.

It's easy to volunteer others for sacrifice, not so easy to raise your own hand.

Oh, and here's the definition of torture:

NOUN

1The action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain.

1.1 Great physical or mental suffering or anxiety:
the torture I’ve gone through because of loving you so

1.2 A cause of suffering or anxiety:
dances were absolute torture because I was so small


VERB

[WITH OBJECT]

1 Inflict severe pain on:
most of the victims had been brutally tortured

1.1 Cause great mental suffering or anxiety to:
he was tortured by grief

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/def...sh/torture

You're clearly equivocating differing connotations of the word, Haywire.

[Heywood]

blah...blah..blah

Parker...you are jackass and an idiot.

You have no idea what sacrifices I have made or haven't made for my country. If I am a chicken hawk for saying Obama made a mistake by pulling the troops out....then he is a chicken hawk for sending them back.....and you are a hyprocrite for not calling out Obama for sending troops back.

[simplemoss]

I don't think you're a "chicken hawk", heywood I just think youre fucking insane

[Thumpalumpacus]

Parker...you are jackass and an idiot.

Opinions, assholes, etc, etc. I'll let you know when yours matters to me.

Protip: it doesn't.

You have no idea what sacrifices I have made or haven't made for my country.

I'd be willing to bet I know what sacrifice you haven't made for your country. It starts with an oath and ends with an honorable discharge, unless you get volunteered to fight somebody else's battle for someone else's benefit. All bets are off at that point.

All talk.

If I am a chicken hawk for saying Obama made a mistake by pulling the troops out....then he is a chicken hawk for sending them back.....and you are a hyprocrite for not calling out Obama for sending troops back.

Actually, I have, and will continue, to criticize him for sending them back ... but not because he's a chicken hawk -- but rather, because he bears the responsibility for making that decision.

You, on the other hand, advocate for a decision in which you will bear no burden, make no sacrifice, and certainly not face accountability.

Cheap talk. It's what you do best.

[Heywood]

I don't think you're a "chicken hawk", heywood I just think youre fucking insane

Thanks

[Minimalist]

You have no idea what sacrifices I have made or haven't made for my country.

Would you consider slitting your throat? That would help.

[Thumpalumpacus]

You have no idea what sacrifices I have made or haven't made for my country.

Would you consider slitting your throat? That would help.

I'd settle for him cutting off his fingers. Take one for the forum!

[Heywood]

Would you consider slitting your throat? That would help.

I'd settle for him cutting off his fingers. Take one for the forum!

The fact that both of you want another human being to harm themselves just because you don't like that human beings views.....is evidence you're both evil.