At least one Canadian get it.

[abaris]

Water boarding isn't torture because it isn't severe. Water boarding is torture because it is severe.

I invite you to try it sometimes. There are many who have and came out with very different opinions on it's severity.

[simplemoss]

Fucking hell you support jim crow laws, torture, and racism? Are you sure your not a devil worshipper Heywood?

Instead of coming up with a counter argument....all you could do is come up with disparaging remarks.

What does that say about your intellect?

I don't wish too provide a counter argument too your'e schizophrenic bullshit anymore than I wish to provide a "counter argument" too the crazy man around the corner from my house wearing a tinfoil hat and carrying sign saying "the end is near"!

[Heywood]

Water boarding isn't torture because it isn't severe. Water boarding is torture because it is severe.

I invite you to try it sometimes. There are many who have and came out with very different opinions on it's severity.

Well you're quoting me out of context. My point was that the word "severe" isn't meaningful to defining what is and isn't torture. The word is so nebulous and open to interpretation that one person's enhanced interrogation technique is another person torture.

Under my definition of torture....water boarding is torture.....regardless of whether or not you find it "severe". I don't need to experience water boarding to know that it is torture. Water boarding is torture because it satisfies my definition of torture.....but so is making a young martial arts student stand in an uncomfortable position for 10 minutes for disrupting the class.

The difference between me and you is I don't find the use of torture to be necessarily bad. To be quite honest...you and others that do find it necessarily bad remind me of Mr. Mackey on South Park...replace "drugs" with "torture" and that's what you sound like to me.





Torture is a tool used by human beings for both good and evil.

[The Grand Nudger]

Water boarding is torture because it satisfies my definition of torture.....but so is making a young martial arts student stand in an uncomfortable position for 10 minutes for disrupting the class.

I think that you'll find the situation those two people are in to be very different. The kid being disciplined could (and often does) just leave. The man being tortured...however, has no such option.

The difference between me and you is I don't find the use of torture to be necessarily bad.

What purpose does it serve, is it effective? Remind me again, why might I torture someone (why might you)? If I'm going to be asked to make a moral compromise I'd like to see the terms of the contract before I sign in blood. I'm afraid a southpark clip ain't gonna cut it.

[Heywood]

What purpose does it serve, is it effective? Remind me again, why might I torture someone (why might you)? If I'm going to be asked to make a moral compromise I'd like to see the terms of the contract before I sign in blood. I'm afraid a southpark clip ain't gonna cut it.

You don't need to make a moral compromise. Instead just look at the world objectively.

You might need to torture someone by incarceration because they committed murder. You might need to torture a child by yelling at them because they didn't do their homework.

There are all sorts of reasons to inflict pain or mental anguish onto someone else for the purpose of punishment.

[Minimalist]

Hey, Woodie. You dropped your hat.

[Heywood]

Hey, Woodie. You dropped your hat.

Go away Minimalists.....the lucid people are trying to have a conversation.

[The Grand Nudger]

You don't need to make a moral compromise.

LOL, yes...yes I do. You see, I find the very notion of torture to be morally abhorrent. Yet, I'm willing to do that which is morally abhorrent (to me) if a competent case can be made. I almost fixed your post by the way, "torture can be used for evil or lesser evil". Just so you know where I'm coming from.

You might need to torture someone by incarceration because they committed murder.
You might need to torture a child by yelling at them because they didn't do their homework.

Hmn, failed equivocation. One thing did amuse me though...why would I need to do that? What need is being met? What sorts of needs do you think I have......? I think that you might be describing a psychotic, a person that "needs" to torture people. I've never personally encountered that need - though I have encountered both murderers and children who avoid their homework. How about yourself? What's you experience (if any) with this need?

I'd still like some clarification as to what we're going to accomplish with torture (as per my previous post).

There are all sorts of reasons to inflict pain or mental anguish onto someone else for the purpose of punishment.

Name one?

[Heywood]

You don't need to make a moral compromise.

LOL, yes...yes I do. You see, I find the very notion of torture to be morally abhorrent. Yet, I'm willing to do that which is morally abhorrent (to me) if a competent case can be made. I almost fixed your post by the way, "torture can be used for evil or lesser evil". Just so you know where I'm coming from.

You might need to torture someone by incarceration because they committed murder.
You might need to torture a child by yelling at them because they didn't do their homework.

Hmn, failed equivocation. One thing did amuse me though...why would I need to do that? What need is being met? What sorts of needs do you think I have......? I think that you might be describing a psychotic, a person that "needs" to torture people. I've never personally encountered that need - though I have encountered both murderers and children who avoid their homework. How about yourself? What's you experience (if any) with this need?

I'd still like some clarification as to what we're going to accomplish with torture (as per my previous post).

There are all sorts of reasons to inflict pain or mental anguish onto someone else for the purpose of punishment.

Name one?

We want to be safe so we lock up murderers. We need to be taken care of in our old age so we educate our children to maximize their productivity and hope they are productive enough to take care of us.

I think you and I agree that sometime torture is just a practical necessity.....or at least could be. Where we differ is my willingness to call any mental or physical anguish imposed by one person on another for the purpose of punishment or information extraction torture while you seem unwilling to do so.

I gave you a couple of examples of torture. You don't accept them as legitimate examples of torture because to you....they aren't severe.

Why does mental or physical anguish have to be severe to be torture?

[The Grand Nudger]

We want to be safe so we lock up murderers.

We're not going to be discussing torture any longer?

We need to be taken care of in our old age so we educate our children to maximize their productivity and hope they are productive enough to take care of us.

Yeah, but I thought we were having a discussion about torture......

I think you and I agree that sometime torture is just a practical necessity.....or at least could be.

Can't say that we do, actually. I see neither the practicality nor the necessity of torture. What gave you the impression that I did?

Where we differ is my willingness to call any mental or physical anguish imposed by one person on another for the purpose of punishment or information extraction torture while you seem unwilling to do so.

Right, because I'm not interested in weaseling around the subject. It's grave enough to take seriously.

I gave you a couple of examples of torture. You don't accept them as legitimate examples of torture because to you....they aren't severe.

That's not why I rejected them. But it doesn't really matter at this point..you're already constructing an alternative narrative here so I'm guessing we're nearing the end?

Why does mental or physical anguish have to be severe to be torture?

I don't know, you tell me pigeon?