Deism: I don't get it

[DeistPaladin]

I seem to be getting this question a lot lately so others please pardon me if I'm repeating what I've posted before.

In practical application, deism is atheism with poetic flourishes. If atheism were a city, deism would be a suburb within the greater metropolitan area. This is why I don't even bother to correct anyone who calls me an "atheist" anymore.

The abstract philosophical distinction is borne from a sense of awe I have both for the natural universe and of the potential of the human mind (and civilization we've subsequently created). Atheists often have similar feelings but just don't need to use the word "God". It's not something I can prove beyond my own instincts but then again, I'm not asking anyone to believe it. I have no "souls" to save (I don't believe in an afterlife) and I don't perceive a personal god that would either desire or be aware of our worship.

[FatAndFaithless]

I seem to be getting this question a lot lately so others please pardon me if I'm repeating what I've posted before.

In practical application, deism is atheism with poetic flourishes. If atheism were a city, deism would be a suburb within the greater metropolitan area. This is why I don't even bother to correct anyone who calls me an "atheist" anymore.

The abstract philosophical distinction is borne from a sense of awe I have both for the natural universe and of the potential of the human mind (and civilization we've subsequently created). Atheists often have similar feelings but just don't need to use the word "God". It's not something I can prove beyond my own instincts but then again, I'm not asking anyone to believe it. I have no "souls" to save (I don't believe in an afterlife) and I don't perceive a personal god that would either desire or be aware of our worship.

I'm curious, have theists ever tried to co-opt you into their camp when you've asserted your deism (i.e. claim you as "on their side" when it comes the the existence of god)? Or are they generally aware that you disbelieve nearly exactly 100% of what they believe?

[Cato]

I like DP's city analogy. The one I have always used is the atheist and the deist have files containing knowledge of what caused the Big Bang; both files are empty. The atheist leaves the file label blank; whereas, the deist chooses to label it God.

[robvalue]

Thank you all, that's most interesting

I don't have any problem with deists, I'm sure I could have married one too! No way I could marry a religious. I learned a long time ago it's a bad idea. Went out with one and it totally did my head in. Not trying to be mean, some people it may not bother, but personally it grinded my gears too much.

I understand it a little better now I think.

[abaris]

Thank you all, that's most interesting

I don't have any problem with deists, I'm sure I could have married one too! No way I could marry a religious. I learned a long time ago it's a bad idea. Went out with one and it totally did my head in. Not trying to be mean, some people it may not bother, but personally it grinded my gears too much.

I understand it a little better now I think.

I dated an alcoholic some twenty years ago. That was enough of a losing battle to last me a lifetime.

[DeistPaladin]

I'm curious, have theists ever tried to co-opt you into their camp when you've asserted your deism (i.e. claim you as "on their side" when it comes the the existence of god)? Or are they generally aware that you disbelieve nearly exactly 100% of what they believe?

Most of them think of me as an atheist.

I mentioned earlier that I don't bother to correct people who call me an atheist anymore. Most of them are theists, though a few are not. Funny thing, once at the local atheist meetup, one atheist caught me saying "we atheists..." at one point. He thinks I'm an atheist in denial.

If anything, the theist that recognizes the distinction is actually more offended than if I were an atheist. The atheist just doubts the existence of their god. The deist emasculates their god (I refer to God as "It" when I use a pronoun, since gender distinctions, or even a physical form, would surely be moot for a being of that power. In my D&D cosmology that I invented, and I wrote out an elaborate back story complete with each deity's motivations, I make it clear the gods aren't anthropomorphic but rather spiritual forces, ala The Force) and then transforms their god from a stern father figure to a hippy scientist. Nature's God bears no resemblance to the Biblical god, Yahweh/Yeshua.

In turn, I feel more comfortable around atheists. Most of my friends and family are, including my wife.

Contrary to Richard Dawkins' assertions in The God Delusion, the only thing I have in common with the theists is we say the word "God", and even on this point there is a chasm of difference in what we mean by that term.

[Rob216]

Oh man, I can't believe that as a deist and a star wars fan it never occurred to me to call it "The Force".

[bennyboy]

Deism is a separation between two ideas: the philosophical problems of psychogony, cosmogony, etc. and the mythology of "God."

The philosophical point of deism is that since mind exists in the universe, mind may be partly (or wholly) involved in the creation of the universe. A Deist may see purpose, design or deliberate function in the goings on of the universe, or may be suspicious about the nature of interaction between observer and observed at the quantum mechanical level (issues of how, when and "why" a waveform function collapses in experimentation, for example). Contrast this with ideas about a God who will watch a teenager masturbating in the shower and start planning his eternity in hellfire, or who will cruelly execute punishment for a parent's sins "to the third and fourth generation."

In other words, a Deity is a massive creative mind, so massive that it couldn't possibly care about humans specifically, or about anything we do; God, on the other hand, is clearly a collection of old wives' tales meant to funnel children toward marriage, baby-making, grandchild production, and the other behaviors that people want to coerce others to engage in.

[Mystic]

Personally it's what I believe about the praise and glory I see, and the connection it has with the divine. The living connection and link to the Divine, is something I can't disbelieve in, even if logic dictates to me God doesn't exist. That at the divine names and the state of unity they point to.

[Cinjin]

This is the first "deism" thread that I've actually enjoyed reading. DP as always shares most all of my viewpoints about deism and like him, most of my friends consider me an atheist - which of course, I feel is a compliment.


For me "God" is a comfortable notion when he (and I only use the 'he' pronoun because it is the proper grammatical default way to address an unknown person) is unknown and undefined. Basically, for me the deistic God is an enjoyable hope that I will someday get to have a few of my many questions answered. That being said, I am unconcerned with the outcome of my death and I have absolutely no fear (something I had LOTS of when I was a sheep worshiping that dickbag Jehovah) of dying with the label deistic atheist ... or whatever one you'd like to slap on me.