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I'm afraid of being agnostic, I need help
#21
RE: I'm afraid of being agnostic, I need help
(January 2, 2015 at 10:49 pm)dyresand Wrote:
(January 2, 2015 at 10:39 pm)TaosFlower Wrote: I guess I just have a hard time believing they could be so wrong on something so big. I love my parents and they've always tried to do right by me. So although I've come to know what they believe is "stupid", it's hard for me to turn away from what they've taught me. Because they've done so much "right" in my life, a part of me feels like they have to be right in this area. But my logical side knows better.

Does this make sense? I just feel lied to and cheated of a peaceful childhood. Although I love my parents, I feel like they've really damaged us kids in this area. I was home-schooled and kept away from outside influences, mainly non-religious influences. I was told all the time that I was sinful and nothing I could do would ever be good unless I had god.

Long story short, I love my parents but I'm also very angry at them for how they raised us kids.

Well its your parents belief they cannot force you to believe what they believe in. If you are agnostic that's fine.. hmm its kind of hard to word what i want to say at the moment.. well it doesn't make your parents wrong saying or telling you god is real you should believe in it. But rather they think they are right because their beliefs are well most likely a tradition and they have some what a deep belief because of their parents passed it on to them.

My dad tells me he was once an atheist. I find that VERY hard to believe. How can you go from believing there is no god (with all the evidence to support it) and then BAM, now you believe there's a god.

He's used his "past atheism" to try and shut me down when I get into arguments with him about religion.
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#22
RE: I'm afraid of being agnostic, I need help
Your parents probably haven't even considered that using fear as a method of control is what they're doing. They are probably just living in fear as well. And they probably don't realize the psychological problems it can produce. It's ok to be wrong, especially when you admit to it, but also just being wrong isn't the worst thing. In other words, this shouldn't be a cause for losing respect for your parents, or your trust.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:

"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."

For context, this is the previous verse:

"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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#23
RE: I'm afraid of being agnostic, I need help
(January 2, 2015 at 10:54 pm)Strider Wrote:
(January 2, 2015 at 10:39 pm)TaosFlower Wrote: I guess I just have a hard time believing they could be so wrong on something so big. I love my parents and they've always tried to do right by me. So although I've come to know what they believe is "stupid", it's hard for me to turn away from what they've taught me. Because they've done so much "right" in my life, a part of me feels like they have to be right in this area. But my logical side knows better.

Does this make sense? I just feel lied to and cheated of a peaceful childhood. Although I love my parents, I feel like they've really damaged us kids in this area. I was home-schooled and kept away from outside influences, mainly non-religious influences. I was told all the time that I was sinful and nothing I could do would ever be good unless I had god.

Long story short, I love my parents but I'm also very angry at them for how they raised us kids.
My parents, especially my dad, are devout Christians. My dad listens to American Family Radio and all. They raised me to believe in what they believed in. Like my parents, I'm sure yours mean well. I'm certain they believe Christianity is the universal truth, God is the source of everything, and that you will burn in hell if you're not a Christian. I can understand how bad religion can mess you up, but damaging you wasn't the intent of your parents.

Anyway, your parents, my parents, and all the others are just people; they get things wrong. What's important is that you find your truth, whether it involves a god or not.

I agree. I don't think they meant to harm me. It just kind of sucks that they are so set in there beliefs and can't see that they hurt people when they tell them they are going to hell simply because they cannot believe in fiction.

Also, thank you for your comments, you're very kind. Smile
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#24
RE: I'm afraid of being agnostic, I need help
You might ask your dad if he feels more certain he is right now than he had felt when he was an atheist.
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#25
RE: I'm afraid of being agnostic, I need help
(January 2, 2015 at 10:55 pm)TaosFlower Wrote: My dad tells me he was once an atheist. I find that VERY hard to believe. How can you go from believing there is no god (with all the evidence to support it) and then BAM, now you believe there's a god.

He's used his "past atheism" to try and shut me down when I get into arguments with him about religion.
We get plenty of those here - to a man..they're liars..lol. Their descriptions of what atheism is or meant to them invariably toe the line of whatever some douchey preacher says about atheism. They don't realize how unbelievable their little fib is because they have absolutely no experience with the subject matter.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#26
RE: I'm afraid of being agnostic, I need help
That is a lot of great advice. I came from a mildly religious family. It was probably easier for me to convert when I never really bought it anyway, and my family seemed like they just went through the motions. Like it was "keeping up with the Jones'" They were probably worried about being judged. I really let it go when I talked to more people about atheism and became more educated.
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#27
RE: I'm afraid of being agnostic, I need help
(January 2, 2015 at 10:59 pm)TaosFlower Wrote:
(January 2, 2015 at 10:54 pm)Strider Wrote: My parents, especially my dad, are devout Christians. My dad listens to American Family Radio and all. They raised me to believe in what they believed in. Like my parents, I'm sure yours mean well. I'm certain they believe Christianity is the universal truth, God is the source of everything, and that you will burn in hell if you're not a Christian. I can understand how bad religion can mess you up, but damaging you wasn't the intent of your parents.

Anyway, your parents, my parents, and all the others are just people; they get things wrong. What's important is that you find your truth, whether it involves a god or not.

I agree. I don't think they meant to harm me. It just kind of sucks that they are so set in there beliefs and can't see that they hurt people when they tell them they are going to hell simply because they cannot believe in fiction.

Also, thank you for your comments, you're very kind. Smile

I agree that is suspicious if you believe there is no god like me then how would one go back to believing in a god. Well... there is weak atheism where one is still holding onto a belief and is suspicious of it and is thinking maybe there is no god. So if you want to hear the truth your dad had to lie to you because i am a atheist i do not believe in god or anything faerie tales. However you are a grown woman your life is your own and so is your mind. But i can see what your parents want they care about you want want the best for you and even will steer you to being a theist again. Well if anything atheists morals are better than any christian morals and that is saying a lot because well most christians think we are immoral when its the complete opposite.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today. 


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#28
RE: I'm afraid of being agnostic, I need help
(January 2, 2015 at 11:04 pm)Rhythm Wrote:
(January 2, 2015 at 10:55 pm)TaosFlower Wrote: My dad tells me he was once an atheist. I find that VERY hard to believe. How can you go from believing there is no god (with all the evidence to support it) and then BAM, now you believe there's a god.

He's used his "past atheism" to try and shut me down when I get into arguments with him about religion.
We get plenty of those here - to a man..they're liars..lol. Their descriptions of what atheism is or meant to them invariably toe the line of whatever some douchey preacher says about atheism. They don't realize how unbelievable their little fib is because they have absolutely no experience with the subject matter.

Yes, he seems to think that atheism is being angry at god and rejecting his laws. So as an atheist he still believed that god existed, it was just that he was angry and refused to obey god. At least that's the idea I get when he tries to explain it (which is always a complicated affair).

I don't know why he thinks that meets the definition of an atheist. But I hardly think he ever was one. He was just a bad god fearing person.
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#29
RE: I'm afraid of being agnostic, I need help
My suggestion is to avoid discussing religion with parents as much as possible. It's not worth it.
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#30
RE: I'm afraid of being agnostic, I need help
I think one of the hardest things to condition ourselves out of is the knee-jerk reaction that people in positions of authority must be right. If it helps you feel better, people use the "appeal to authority" fallacy in just about anything. The most notable examples I can think of is the way that people pretend that cops or military personnel with all their training would surely never make stupid mistakes, or pilots couldn't possibly confuse 'normal' objects in the sky with UFO's. We're taught from cradle to respect people older than us simply because they've lived longer.

After dating several men older than me, I've realized that age is really no indicator of wisdom or maturity. Once you get used to that idea, it will make it easier for you to accept that your parents are able to be wrong without necessarily lying to you - they believe with all their heart, I'm sure, but that doesn't make them necessarily right.

There are lots of people who feel the way you do. You might also try talking to some of the people on The Thinking Atheist forum. Seth Andrews, the man who runs TTA podcast, is an exceptional human being and has done some episodes devoted to the sorts of things you've gone through. His parents still haven't stopped trying to guilt him back into the fold.


(January 2, 2015 at 10:44 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:I guess I just have a hard time believing they could be so wrong on something so big.

They are probably wrong about lots of stuff, big and small. Being a parent does not require wisdom.

Hell. Sarah Palin is a parent and she's the dumbest shit going.

Did you see the picture circulating of her son standing on their dog's back?
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