Observations On Atheism Part II - God And The Bible

[bozo]

The definition of God is the most important thing to the argument for or against atheism. You need to come up with a cut and dry definition of what 'God' is and what 'God' isn't before you can say anything meaningful.

A man who picks up a stick and calls it God has every right to do so. He's wrong, because we already have a word for a stick(and it's not 'God'), but that's not the definition we're discussing, and you know it.

Meatball you are spot on! Unfortunately I predict a voluminous reply from Mr. Daystar which will amount to not much.

[allan175]

Okay, but a god doesn't have to be a real person. It can be a real person, but it can also be a wood carving or mythological figure. For example. Zeus wasn't a real person he was a myth, but he was a god to many people. Not you, but a god none the less. To say Zeus wasn't a god is not true. To say he didn't actually exists other than as a myth doesn't make him not a real god. So to say there is no such thing as Zeus the god isn't correct.

You seem to be getting stuck on the language rather than the meaning.
The dictionary definition of "god" does say "any deified person or object", however, the definition of "deify" says:-
1. to make a god of; exalt to the rank of a deity; personify as a deity: to deify a beloved king.
2. to adore or regard as a deity: to deify wealth.

And I can positively say I do not deify anyone or anything.

By the way, in the Bible there are two gods of luck. One for good and one for bad. In the Bible there was a ship with a god of each which was common for that period. Do you believe in luck?

No, I don't. I know that sometimes things work out more favourably for me but there is no "belief" involved, stuff just happens, sometimes for the better, sometimes not so good.

Well the Bible doesn't indicate there isn't life on other planets so I couldn't say for sure. It is interesting that life on other planets is always perceived as being superior to our own. They are always far more advanced than we are.

I don't perceive it as more "advanced" than us.
It may be, it may not be. All I "perceive" it as being is suitable for its environment.
Certainly in science fiction it quite often is very advanced (but not always) but that's due to narritive constraints. I'm not sure I'd want to read a whole book about some bacteria-like layer on rocks on a different planet!

[leo-rcc]

I like Tribbles though.

[Daystar]

Meatball you are spot on! Unfortunately I predict a voluminous reply from Mr. Daystar which will amount to not much.

In other words it won't amount to much to you because you have no use of it.

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You seem to be getting stuck on the language rather than the meaning.
The dictionary definition of "god" does say "any deified person or object", however, the definition of "deify" says:-
1. to make a god of; exalt to the rank of a deity; personify as a deity: to deify a beloved king.
2. to adore or regard as a deity: to deify wealth.

And I can positively say I do not deify anyone or anything.

But as I have said that makes no difference. Just because it isn't a god to you doesn't mean it isn't a god. The Bible calls the pagan gods Astarte, Baal, Molech, Tammuz etc. gods but they were not my gods or the gods of Israel for the most part but they were gods none the less. The Bible calls Moses, Jesus, angels and judges of Israel gods but they were not gods to Jehovah.

All you really have to do is recognize that there are gods and what that means, not believe in or deify them.

I know that sometimes things work out more favourably for me but there is no "belief" involved, stuff just happens, sometimes for the better, sometimes not so good.

I agree, and I notice when good things happen people tend to put that on "luck" or "god." Everything good that is invented is often credited to science by science minded people. The PC and the Internet for example. The PC was invented by a college dropout from his parents garage and the Internet was invented by the US Army.

I don't attribute all good things to luck or god or science I try to see where it actually comes from.

[leo-rcc]

You are half right, the internet was invented Vincent Cerf in 1973 by commission of the US Army, but he was not part of the Army. The Internet began as a computer network of ARPA (ARPAnet) that linked computer networks at several universities and research laboratories in the United States. The World Wide Web was developed in 1989 by English computer scientist Timothy Berners-Lee for the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN).

[allan175]

But as I have said that makes no difference. Just because it isn't a god to you doesn't mean it isn't a god. The Bible calls the pagan gods Astarte, Baal, Molech, Tammuz etc. gods but they were not my gods or the gods of Israel for the most part but they were gods none the less. The Bible calls Moses, Jesus, angels and judges of Israel gods but they were not gods to Jehovah.

All you really have to do is recognize that there are gods and what that means, not believe in or deify them.

I do see what you are saying, other people's gods are just that, other people's and nothing to do with anyone else.
However, when someone uses the word god when talking about their beliefs there is an *implied* supernatural element to what they are saying. At least to my mind there is!

I don't attribute all good things to luck or god or science I try to see where it actually comes from.

As do we all, but saying the PC or internet wasn't attributable to science is a bit misleading. The PC may well have been made by a college dropout in his parent's garage but the reason he could do that is because he was using equipment and components whos operations were worked out from scientific principles by people who came before him.

[Kyuuketsuki]

This conversation has gone too far in the short time I was away for me to get truly involved but I did notice this:

It is interesting that life on other planets is always perceived as being superior to our own. They are always far more advanced than we are.

Firstly, that isn't true ... "Stargate" (film & and two spin-off TV series) springs to mind where the "aliens" are most definitely not always perceived as advanced (more often rather primitive) and series such as "Star Trek", "Firefly", "Babylon 5", "Doctor Who" and so on will contain stories featuring more primitive races. Secondly, when you're talking about films (for instance) where aliens visit Earth yes, they are usually superior but that makes some sense because such scenarios tend to be set in the [then] present day against aliens who have come from a supposedly far flung world and as such they almost certainly must have technology greater than ours as we have only go unmanned satellites to anything other than the moon.

Kyu

[Daystar]

This conversation has gone too far in the short time I was away for me to get truly involved but I did notice this:

It is interesting that life on other planets is always perceived as being superior to our own. They are always far more advanced than we are.

Firstly, that isn't true ... "Stargate" (film & and two spin-off TV series) springs to mind where the "aliens" are most definitely not always perceived as advanced (more often rather primitive) and series such as "Star Trek", "Firefly", "Babylon 5", "Doctor Who" and so on will contain stories featuring more primitive races. Secondly, when you're talking about films (for instance) where aliens visit Earth yes, they are usually superior but that makes some sense because such scenarios tend to be set in the [then] present day against aliens who have come from a supposedly far flung world and as such they almost certainly must have technology greater than ours as we have only go unmanned satellites to anything other than the moon.

Kyu

You are talking about science fiction though. Being a great fan of Frank Herbert's Dune I would agree with you there, but the general public tends to speculate for the most part that alien life is far more advanced than we are. It is almost a utopian reflection.

---

I do see what you are saying, other people's gods are just that, other people's and nothing to do with anyone else.
However, when someone uses the word god when talking about their beliefs there is an *implied* supernatural element to what they are saying. At least to my mind there is!

When you limit your idea of God to the God of the Bible, Jehovah, you are talking about the supernatural and generally that is what Atheists do. But when the apostle Paul said that ones own belly could be a god he wasn't talking about the supernatural. The word god itself doesn't imply supernatural.

Daystar - I don't attribute all good things to luck or god or science I try to see where it actually comes from.

Allan - As do we all, but saying the PC or internet wasn't attributable to science is a bit misleading. The PC may well have been made by a college dropout in his parent's garage but the reason he could do that is because he was using equipment and components whos operations were worked out from scientific principles by people who came before him.

[laughs] and of course, the Creator.

[CoxRox]

They probably image aliens more advanced due to alleged ufo and alien sightings. Obviously if aliens can travel here they must be far advanced than us.......

[allan175]

Daystar - I don't attribute all good things to luck or god or science I try to see where it actually comes from.

Allan - As do we all, but saying the PC or internet wasn't attributable to science is a bit misleading. The PC may well have been made by a college dropout in his parent's garage but the reason he could do that is because he was using equipment and components whos operations were worked out from scientific principles by people who came before him.

[laughs] and of course, the Creator. [/quote]
Haha.....Well, of course in your eyes, but in mine there is no first creator necessary!