Ask a Catholic

[loganonekenobi]

I'm a Catholic. You have questions. Let's get started.

The greatest fear I have is that with enough consent we in this country may return to a theocracy that although brought us out of the fall of the roman empire did much atrocity to the world in the name of God. Do you believe that today if that happened I and other non believers would have much hope for a life in this country?
On that note (for example) abortion is a hot issue in the Catholic world. Why? is it because of Gods words or because killing babies is generaly not a pleasent thought? Personaly and as a medical guy I know that abortion is not a good alternitive to unwanted prego however the circular logic in Catholisism is that abortion is bad but contriceptives are not allowed so you cant have sex unless you want kids and you probably dont want kids untill you are married which satisfies the desires of God (or at least the old Jewish laws which were aimed at controlling women). To me all this seems like control mechenisms diguised in the idea of caring for babies. Do you see what i mean? You might truely be concerned for the unborn but the pope wants nothing more than control of as many people as possible and so uses the emotions of the masses to get what he (the historicly controlling church) wants.
Yet the amount of lives destroyed by the idea that every one MUST be Christian makes me doubt that the church fathers really care about life. You might... but they dont....not historicly.
I'm not discounting the good things the church has done like advancing science and helping the less fortunate although i believe we are capable of doing these things without a god but that is for another disgustion.
I might believe that for maybe 50 years of modern church rule that I wouldn't be outright slain but what about 100 years...200 years? Did you know that somewhere in the book of Corinthians it is written that non believers must be killed and this is said in other places in the bible as well. How long before open season on non catholics would come into law?

[TubbyTubby]

Its always puzzled me why a book inspired by the creator of the Universe needs a lot of human effort to explain away its contradictions.

[Metis]

I'm a Catholic. You have questions. Let's get started.

The greatest fear I have is that with enough consent we in this country may return to a theocracy that although brought us out of the fall of the roman empire did much atrocity to the world in the name of God.  Do you believe that today if that happened I and other non believers would have much hope for a life in this country?

The Catholic Church didn't do any such thing, it actually destroyed innumerable relics and books from the Classical world as "demonic idols" and "textbooks of demonology". It seperated us from our classical past, until it suited itself of course and during the reneissance the Papacy got a taste for the classics again.

No, what dragged us out of medevalism was the fall of Byzantium and the transport of huge quantities of classical Greek literature and artefacts back into the west. The beautiful irony however is that the Catholic Church could have prevented that even still! Firstly if it hadn't weakened Byzantium by taking it over and briefly setting up a Latin Patriarchate, and secondly if they'd actually given any more help than a token gesture of 300 Pisan archers to defend Constatinople!

The Catholic Church did give us a few things we take for granted today like Charity, many Romans before then practiced what the Catholics call "vainglory"; setting up huge monuments to their own fame rather than feeding the poor but leaving the Dark Ages? Irish Celtic Christianity did a hell of a lot more there, in fact they created many of the monasteries the Catholics like to claim as their own today.

[Randy Carson]

I'm a Catholic. You have questions. Let's get started.

The greatest fear I have is that with enough consent we in this country may return to a theocracy that although brought us out of the fall of the roman empire did much atrocity to the world in the name of God.  Do you believe that today if that happened I and other non believers would have much hope for a life in this country?
On that note (for example) abortion is a hot issue in the  Catholic world.  Why? is it because of Gods words or because  killing babies is generaly not a pleasent thought?  Personaly and as a medical guy I know that abortion is not a good alternitive to unwanted prego however the circular logic in Catholisism is that abortion is bad but contriceptives are not allowed so you cant have sex unless you want kids and you probably dont want kids untill you are married which satisfies the desires of God (or at least the old Jewish laws which were aimed at controlling women).  To me all this seems like control mechenisms diguised in the idea of caring for babies.  Do you see what i mean?  You might  truely be concerned for the unborn but the pope wants nothing more than control of as many people as possible[emphasis added] and so uses the emotions of the masses to get  what he (the historicly controlling church) wants.

For what purpose does the pope want to control as many people as possible?

Yet the amount of lives destroyed by the idea that  every one MUST be Christian makes me doubt that the church fathers really care about life.  You might... but they dont....not historicly.
I'm not discounting the good things the church has done like advancing science and helping the less fortunate although i believe we are capable of doing these things without a god but that is for another disgustion.
I might believe that for maybe 50 years of modern church rule that I wouldn't be outright slain but what about 100 years...200 years?  Did you know that somewhere in the book of Corinthians [emphasis added] it is written that non believers must be killed and this is said in other places in the bible as well.  How long before open season on non catholics would come into law?

Which verse in Corinthians do you have in mind here?

[Randy Carson]

The greatest fear I have is that with enough consent we in this country may return to a theocracy that although brought us out of the fall of the roman empire did much atrocity to the world in the name of God.  Do you believe that today if that happened I and other non believers would have much hope for a life in this country?

The Catholic Church didn't do any such thing, it actually destroyed innumerable relics and books from the Classical world as "demonic idols" and "textbooks of demonology". It seperated us from our classical past, until it suited itself of course and during the reneissance the Papacy got a taste for the classics again.

No, what dragged us out of medevalism was the fall of Byzantium and the transport of huge quantities of classical Greek literature and artefacts back into the west. The beautiful irony however is that the Catholic Church could have prevented that even still! Firstly if it hadn't weakened Byzantium by taking it over and briefly setting up a Latin Patriarchate, and secondly if they'd actually given any more help than a token gesture of 300 Pisan archers to defend Constatinople!

The Catholic Church did give us a few things we take for granted today like Charity, many Romans before then practiced what the Catholics call "vainglory"; setting up huge monuments to their own fame rather than feeding the poor but leaving the Dark Ages? Irish Celtic Christianity did a hell of a lot more there, in fact they created many of the monasteries the Catholics like to claim as their own today.

Here is a book that you might find interesting on this subject. A quick glance at the table of contents will give you quite a few examples of the positive impact of Catholicism on the world as you know it.

[abaris]

Here is a book that you might find interesting on this subject. A quick glance at the table of contents will give you quite a few examples of the positive impact of Catholicism on the world as you know it.

And I'm sure it doesn't have an agenda and fully appreciates the age of enlightenment.

[Metis]

Here is a book that you might find interesting on this subject. A quick glance at the table of contents will give you quite a few examples of the positive impact of Catholicism on the world as you know it.

And I'm sure it doesn't have an agenda and fully appreciates the age of enlightenment.

Thank you for the suggestion Randy, I've already read it.

Abaris is half right, it's not a "Catholic work" in the usual sense, it's far more subtly written but the usual contempt and revisionism is still strong there. It wasn't the worst I'd seen but it does basically ignore the fact our culture started in Athens not Rome, it ignores all the acts of violence Catholics conducted against "pagan" libraries and public works. The Catholic Church did preserve a few select texts that didn't offend it's sensibilities, or in the case of Ovid it re-wrote his books to promote Christianity (Ovid was claimed for several centuries to have become a Catholic Bishop...Which is interesting, considering he died in 17 AD in modern day Romania)

They also interestingly ignore all the violence and theft from Orthodox lands by Catholics of Roman artifacts that had been transported to Constantinople and Thessolonikki but now adorn the streets of Venice as war trophies.

[abaris]

The Catholic Church did preserve a few select texts that didn't offend it's sensibilities

But you are aware that the muslim world did much more in preserving ancient texts? They weren't as shy about dogmas as their christian contemporaries.

[Metis]

The Catholic Church did preserve a few select texts that didn't offend it's sensibilities

But you are aware that the muslim world did much more in preserving ancient texts? They weren't as shy about dogmas as their christian contemporaries.

Oh absolutely. They sucked it all up, and living right next to Byzantium and eventually in it they had direct access to materials Western Europe simply didn't.

I can't say all Christians were like this though Abaris, before the Muslims got involved it was the Greek Orthodox who preserved the Classics and fostered the scholarship around them. Indeed, in Byzantium they never lost Homer, Aristophanes or any of the others that wouldn't be heard again in Italy for well over a thousand years.

[Randy Carson]

And I'm sure it doesn't have an agenda and fully appreciates the age of enlightenment.

Thank you for the suggestion Randy, I've already read it.

Abaris is half right, it's not a "Catholic work" in the usual sense, it's far more subtly written but the usual contempt and revisionism is still strong there. It wasn't the worst I'd seen but it does basically ignore the fact our culture started in Athens not Rome, it ignores all the acts of violence Catholics conducted against "pagan" libraries and public works. The Catholic Church did preserve a few select texts that didn't offend it's sensibilities, or in the case of Ovid it re-wrote his books to promote Christianity (Ovid was claimed for several centuries to have become a Catholic Bishop...Which is interesting, considering he died in 17 AD in modern day Romania)

They also interestingly ignore all the violence and theft from Orthodox lands by Catholics of Roman artifacts that had been transported to Constantinople and Thessolonikki but now adorn the streets of Venice as war trophies.

I'm glad you have read it.

What did you think the book got right? The universities? The hospitals? The judicial system? Anything?

One other question: Are you REALLY a mason...or was that just humor?