Hello, i am a real Christian

[True Christian]

About helping the poor and homeless, many churches, today, have programs to help.

Hmmm. I was born catholic (and I wasn't molested...and I'm a bit insulted by that...but I digress.) I seem to recall them collecting money for the "poor" for the "missions", for the "elderly priests and nuns," for "building funds" not to mention running Bingo games and Las Vegas Nights and selling raffle tickets.

In short, they always had their hands out for something. It seems to me that they were spending MY money and not their own. Now that I am a fully grown cynic I sort of wonder where all that money ended up.

First off, did you take that no-molestation joke from Bill Maher's show ?

Furthermore, that is an example from your life. You cannot generalize upon simply personnal experience. It is a fact that many churches help the homeless by having all different kinds of charity events, and churches have always provided shelter to the poor, for millenia.

[Minimalist]

However there is evidence in the form of the Gospels, the teachings of Jesus.

But those gospels talk about miracles which are highly unlikely.

Do you accept Matthew when he says that the dead got up and wandered around Jerusalem?

[Paul the Human]

However there is evidence in the form of the Gospels, the teachings of Jesus.

[Minimalist]

About helping the poor and homeless, many churches, today, have programs to help.

Hmmm. I was born catholic (and I wasn't molested...and I'm a bit insulted by that...but I digress.) I seem to recall them collecting money for the "poor" for the "missions", for the "elderly priests and nuns," for "building funds" not to mention running Bingo games and Las Vegas Nights and selling raffle tickets.

In short, they always had their hands out for something. It seems to me that they were spending MY money and not their own. Now that I am a fully grown cynic I sort of wonder where all that money ended up.

First off, did you take that no-molestation joke from Bill Maher's show ?

{Yes. Maher is great!}

Furthermore, that is an example from your life. You cannot generalize upon simply personnal experience. It is a fact that many churches help the homeless by having all different kinds of charity events, and churches have always provided shelter to the poor, for millenia.

{ I could swear I wasn't alone in that church. There were plenty of others. BTW, a cynic might point out that when churches do "charity" they have an ulterior motive. They want you to listen to their "message." That makes this less "charity" than a "cost-of-doing-business." }

[Xyster]

What's more religion has undeniably done some good in the world. It has united nations, given people a set of moral values that are good for the well-being of society. For hundreds of years most of the education and medicine was practiced by the Church. Finally most organizations that help the poor sick or homeless are originally Christian.

Well first off.. Welcome to the forums

Well I couldent agree more that you are a true Christain.... MOST that I have met are of the Cherry picking breed (Keep what you agree with and the stuff you dont agree with is either out of context or not a literal passage and or ignored all together) What's more religion has undeniably done ALOT terrible things to the world. Muslims fighting Christians...Christians fighting muslims... Muslims and christians infighting over dogma. There is nothing any religion has done for the good of man that could not have done by a secular means...if 85% of the population is religious of course the majority of private hospitals would be of religious origins.. It means nothing.... If you can get a man to believe obserdities you can get him to commit atrocities......

You can NOT cherry pick religion. If you can please point the passage in the bible where it says you can..... cuz I can point out where it says you cant... Most Atheist dont believe in a god for a few reasons but the most common is EVEDENCE or lack there of or even evedence contrary to holy text. For hundreds of years and even today religion has styfled education (mostly science) not only supress education and new ideas but would try them as herritics and kill them or imprisson them.

[darkwolf176]

And no i honestly do not believe (and i will get a lot of flame for this) that atheists are as giving as theists simply because the code of conduct that theists use considers giving to others a real virtue that should be encouraged. And yes this is partly done because of a fear of God, but if it helps the world become a better place...

How dare you say make such generalisations, is there honestly one good thing that a religious person has done in the name of their religion, that someone who was not religious could not do also?

Name one!

Then lets try the inverse think of a bad thing that someone has done in the name of their religion?

[True Christian]

That almost makes sense to me - or at least I can see how one can come to this point of view. But how, for example, do you know, that you got better education and not the others? I also did not say, that NO education was provided by monasteries but that education would have been better and available to a broader range of people without the dark ages.

About your last point: This is actually a reason (if valid) why people should believe in an angry god - but it is definitely NO reason for the existence of god. It is always very dangerous to make people believe unreasonable things just because a self-appointed elite considers it good for everyone. So in a way, I am less pessimistic than you are - I 'believe' that telling people the truth is a good thing that will finally help anyone living on this planet. Censorship and make-believe are two things I strongly decline.

I never said i had "better" education i just said i "may have". By that i mean that my school had good ratings and was considered to have a very good program. However if you read my post you can see that i did not boldly state that i had a better education than everyone else.

Also what proof do you have for the Dark Ages having anything to do with religion ? How can you say that without religion they wouldnt have happened ? It is too easy to state that.
In France, at the start of the Renaissance era, the King considered himself appointed by God, essentially blending Church and State together. But this period also saw the expansion of science, medicine and art.

[Craveman]

Hello all

Hello and welcome

I believe that the vast majority of the Old Testament is non-factual.

But i am a real christian in that i believe, according to the tales of the Gospels, that Jesus is the Son of God, performed miracles, and was resurrected.

Why? Please explain why you would discard the OT and believe in the NT. If you believe in the trinity then the OT god and Jesus in the NT is one and the same.

i just think they havnt had the luck i had, which is to see the beautiful message of the Christ.

You'll be able to find beautiful messages in ALL religions especially if you cherry pick the way you do.

[True Christian]

And no i honestly do not believe (and i will get a lot of flame for this) that atheists are as giving as theists simply because the code of conduct that theists use considers giving to others a real virtue that should be encouraged. And yes this is partly done because of a fear of God, but if it helps the world become a better place...

How dare you say make such generalisations, is there honestly one good thing that a religious person has done in the name of their religion, that someone who was not religious could not do also?

Name one!

Then lets try the inverse think of a bad thing that someone has done in the name of their religion, perhaps?

I told you id get a lot of flame for this

It is not a generalization it is logic. I never said all christians are giving and all atheists are not, i just said that religious people are more enclined to engage in charity because of their beliefs. Dont trying to box me into a little overgeneralizing jackass, and actually think about what i am saying.

[Atheist_named_Christian]

I never said i had "better" education i just said i "may have". By that i mean that my school had good ratings and was considered to have a very good program. However if you read my post you can see that i did not boldly state that i had a better education than everyone else.

Also what proof do you have for the Dark Ages having anything to do with religion ? How can you say that without religion they wouldnt have happened ? It is too easy to state that.
In France, at the start of the Renaissance era, the King considered himself appointed by God, essentially blending Church and State together. But this period also saw the expansion of science, medicine and art.

Sure - I do not know these things for sure. However, it is a fact, that the catholic church played a major role in keeping down people from the roman empire until now, basically. It was at least USED by the Rulers. This is no proof of what I said, but I think it renders it highly likely.

Don't you also want to comment on your statement that telling people a lie is justified in the case of religion?