Teaching your kids about Santa Clause

[*Deidre*]

Well, if you choose to have kids some day, since you're most likely going to raise them with the idea that a ''loving'' god exists who if you do wrong will send you to a terrible place called hell, and if you're good, you'll be rewarded with a wonderful place called heaven...what's one more lie?

[Pyrrho]

That is pure bullshit.  Children like the holiday just fine without the nonsensical beliefs attached.  What you are saying is just the rationalization that the goddamned liars like to give for their goddamned lies.  People like tricking children, as it makes them feel superior.  It does not benefit the children at all.

I'm not sure if you're just venting frustrations because you were traumatized when you found out that Santa isn't real. But.....I see this post and it seems like an extreme overreaction. I do not believe that parents who tell their kids Santa is real are these malevolent people tricking their kids on some disgusting power trip. Actually, I find the notion laughably ridiculous. People remember enjoying Santa Claus and they want their children to have those same good memories. Is it necessary? No, but it's also not harmful.

You obviously have not been paying attention to my posts in this thread, as the very first one deals with your false assumption.  My parents did not lie to me about Santa.  When I went to school, I found (of course) that many classmates in kindergarten believed in Santa.  Of course, they did not want to hear the truth, so I learned to keep my mouth shut about it.  However, I did observe my classmates over time, and, eventually, they learned the truth elsewhere.  Some of them seemed to take it in stride.  But many of them cried their eyes out during recess.  That was pain and suffering that was completely unnecessary that was inflicted on them by their parents.  I guess you think that is fine for parents to do to their children.  I don't.  It would be different if it served a useful purpose, but this lie does not.  One enjoys presents and food without Santa.  From a child's perspective, a good present is a good present no matter who gives it to one.

[Losty]

I understand 2 opinions on this matter. The first is the opinion that it's ok to tell kids Santa is real, and the second is that parents shouldn't tell their kids Santa is real. Both opinions make sense to me. Like I already said, I personally don't think it's morally wrong but it's not the kind of relationship I want to have with my kids. Even when it may be "good for them" I don't like lying to my kids, I would rather say "it's not something I think you need to know right now" than lie to them.

This...

That is pure bullshit.  Children like the holiday just fine without the nonsensical beliefs attached.  What you are saying is just the rationalization that the goddamned liars like to give for their goddamned lies.  People like tricking children, as it makes them feel superior.  It does not benefit the children at all.

however, I do not understand. I think you're being melodramatic and irrational in this post. Regardless of whether you think it's ok or you think it's wrong, parents who tell their children Santa is real are not doing it because they like tricking people to make themselves feel superior. You even suggesting this to be true makes me want to tell you to grow up.

[downbeatplumb]

I think it's good for children to learn that they can't trust everything you tell them to be the absolute truth.
They need to trust their own judgement and discovering that even people who love them tell them lies is valuable. My kids worked it out for themselves, my sister told me and we went on a present hunt.

[Losty]

I think it's good for children to learn that they can't trust everything you tell them to be the absolute truth.
They need to trust their own judgement and discovering that even people who love them tell them lies is valuable. My kids worked it out for themselves, my sister told me and we went on a present hunt.

I also agree with this, but I found lying about obvious things from ages 2-5 is a fun way to teach your kids to figure things out for themselves while maintaining that trust.

For example when I'm cooking dinner and my almost 3 year old asks what I'm doing I'll tell her I'm dancing ballet with a giraffe, or when she points to my cellphone and asks what it is I'll say "it's a cow, what do cows say?"
Kids think it's funny, and at the same time I thinks it's a fun way to teach them to figure out their own answers instead of believing everything other people tell them.

[Pyrrho]

I understand 2 opinions on this matter. The first is the opinion that it's ok to tell kids Santa is real, and the second is that parents shouldn't tell their kids Santa is real. Both opinions make sense to me. Like I already said, I personally don't think it's morally wrong but it's not the kind of relationship I want to have with my kids. Even when it may be "good for them" I don't like lying to my kids, I would rather say "it's not something I think you need to know right now" than lie to them.

This...

That is pure bullshit.  Children like the holiday just fine without the nonsensical beliefs attached.  What you are saying is just the rationalization that the goddamned liars like to give for their goddamned lies.  People like tricking children, as it makes them feel superior.  It does not benefit the children at all.

however, I do not understand. I think you're being melodramatic and irrational in this post. Regardless of whether you think it's ok or you think it's wrong, parents who tell their children Santa is real are not doing it because they like tricking people to make themselves feel superior. You even suggesting this to be true makes me want to tell you to grow up.

It was a reaction to someone failing to recognize that an exact and perfect example of lying is actually lying.  And there was a reluctance to accept it even after it was pointed out that it perfectly fits the definition.  There was also an attempt at an excuse for the lying which does not fit the actual facts.

It is a simple and straightforward matter of fact that we are dealing with lying.  A failure to recognize that shows that one is messed up in one's thinking about it.

Now, all of that is a separate issue from whether it is right or wrong or indifferent.  It is only after one sees what it is that it can be judged good, bad, or indifferent.  This is analogous to me coming out of a bank with a bag of money.  One cannot properly judge that action without accurate information about what is going on.  It could be that I made a large cash withdrawal from my account or from my safe deposit box, or it could be that I robbed the bank.  The moral judgement comes only after one has the facts straight.  So, too, in this case, one must first get the facts straight before one can reasonably judge the matter to be good, bad, or indifferent.  Unfortunately, this is a case where people often fail to get the facts straight, even after they are explained to them.  Many people have trouble recognizing that the Santa example is an example of lying.  Why do you think that is?  If what people were doing was perfectly innocent, why would they have trouble recognizing and acknowledging the obvious facts of the situation?  Are they just morons, too stupid to understand the concept of lying?  That would be an innocent reason for their failures in this case, but somehow I do not think you are going to tell us that that is what is going on.  Nor is it what I would accuse them of.  But, since you do not like my explanation, what is the explanation for this situation?

[Losty]

People lie all the time. Lying in itself isn't immoral, even people who say it is don't really believe that. Everyone lies and sometimes we lie for reasons that we think are justified or not really a big deal, in those cases many people have a really hard time calling their lie a lie. It makes them uncomfortable. People are silly, they like to insist that lying is always wrong and then when they lie for reasons they believe are justified they say it's not a lie. It's not because they're trying to cover their guilt, people just tend to have issues with the word lie.

[TubbyTubby]

I'm sat on the fence with this. My kids embraced the Santa myth and it added a beautiful magical fantasy feel to our christmas which I encouraged. They have now realised that it's a myth and we all move on but.....I do get a tinge of regret that I haven't been totally honest with them (but I think they understand why it was the way it was).

Interestingly, I was sat having a few bottles of wine some years back with a devout Christian friend/colleague and after I questioned his faith he asked whether I told my kids that Santa was real. I explained that I did and he replied that he would never tell his kids a lie like this (he didn't have children at the time). Our paths diverged for a while until we met up once again and he was now a young father. I asked whether he had denied the Santa myth from his child and he admitted that he told his kid Santa was real. I don't remember his reasons for his turnaround as we were in a loud busy pub at christmas time (hence my recollection of the question).

Anyway, I think if I was to teeter across the fence it would be (slightly) in favour of the Santa story for youngsters simply because of that feeling of magic that fills the air at christmas. If you can then let them grow and understand why you led them to believe in a lie then there's little damage done in my opinion. The memories last and they can relive those memories with their own children. There's not much to be happy about in the world so why not make those first few years memorable.

[GrandizerII]

People lie all the time. Lying in itself isn't immoral, even people who say it is don't really believe that. Everyone lies and sometimes we lie for reasons that we think are justified or not really a big deal, in those cases many people have a really hard time calling their lie a lie. It makes them uncomfortable. People are silly, they like to insist that lying is always wrong and then when they lie for reasons they believe are justified they say it's not a lie. It's not because they're trying to cover their guilt, people just tend to have issues with the word lie.

This. Sometimes, it may actually be immoral not to lie. The Nazi soldiers example is a classical one.

But going back to Santa, some kids are going to be upset when they find out Santa isn't true, but some kids are also going to be distraught when they find out that other imaginary friends aren't real as well, that they won't live forever, and that they can't drink from a baby milk bottle anymore.

To me, it's how you handle these challenges as a parent that matters more.

[Pyrrho]

I think it's good for children to learn that they can't trust everything you tell them to be the absolute truth.
They need to trust their own judgement and discovering that even people who love them tell them lies is valuable. My kids worked it out for themselves, my sister told me and we went on a present hunt.

I also agree with this, but I found lying about obvious things from ages 2-5 is a fun way to teach your kids to figure things out for themselves while maintaining that trust.

For example when I'm cooking dinner and my almost 3 year old asks what I'm doing I'll tell her I'm dancing ballet with a giraffe, or when she points to my cellphone and asks what it is I'll say "it's a cow, what do cows say?"
Kids think it's funny, and at the same time I thinks it's a fun way to teach them to figure out their own answers instead of believing everything other people tell them.

That is a very different sort of situation from telling your children that Santa is real.  In your example, the claim that you are dancing ballet with a giraffe does not involve any deception.  You are saying things that are obviously false, and can be immediately seen to be false.