Atheists who have converted to theism?

[robvalue]

I can understand that for some people, having no inherent meaning or purpose could be a hard thing to come to terms with. It just happens it doesn't bother me at all, and doesn't seem to bother a lot of people.

The thing is though, I was never raised under the illusion that life has inherent purpose, or that life continues after death. So when I came to these conclusions myself, I hadn't "lost" anything. If you're taught, as fact, that life has and needs purpose, and that there is an afterlife, coming to terms with these not actually being the case could take some big mental adjustments which I guess are just too much for some people.

Of course, not everyone is even going to come to the conclusion that what they were taught is unsupported. I'm talking more of people who get close to the edge of questioning their "faith". To even get that far requires either never having properly believed it first time round, or else a big effort (and the capability) to objectively analyse the beliefs.

I'm very impressed with the people who shed their religion for moral reasons, before actually losing belief in it.

[Whateverist]

I just realized what was bothering me about this thread's title. Atheists don't "convert" to theism. Atheism doesn't occupy the same place in a person's life as theism. Theism, assuming that means practicing one religion or another, involves particular expectations and rituals. Atheism is nothing like that. Atheism is just people getting on with their lives absent a belief in gods. So an atheist doesn't convert to theism, he merely takes it up rather than dismissing it.

[Neo-Scholastic]

I've answered this question in depth before:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-22860-po...#pid570496

Interestingly enough, the deeper I dig into the philosophical traditions of the Christian faith the more astounded I am of the subtlety of thought and careful distinctions the Schoolmen and Church Doctors made. The more I study, the certainty that God exists becomes increasing confirmed in my mind. Modern philosophy has made some important contributions particularly with respect to language and sign systems. Yet so much has been lost. The flippant responses to a great intellectual tradition bother me but part of me understands. I've been there so I know well the resistance. Many atheists assume, based on modern analytic approaches, that all previous demonstrations in favor of theism have been refuted. I have seen little evidence for this. It appears to be an argument from authority and an authority that doesn't even exist, no less. There are legitimate challenges to Scholastic philosophy, which I find wanting, but no one on AF, except perhaps Nestor, has a good grip on what those might be.

[Whateverist]

I've answered this question in depth before:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-22860-po...#pid570496

Interestingly enough, the deeper I dig into the philosophical traditions of the Christian faith the more astounded I am of the subtlety of thought and careful distinctions the Schoolmen and Church Doctors made. The more I study, the certainty that God exists becomes increasing confirmed in my mind. 

I think what you are really finding out is how your mind works.

[GrandizerII]

I've answered this question in depth before:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-22860-po...#pid570496

Interestingly enough, the deeper I dig into the philosophical traditions of the Christian faith the more astounded I am of the subtlety of thought and careful distinctions the Schoolmen and Church Doctors made. The more I study, the certainty that God exists becomes increasing confirmed in my mind. 

I think what you are really finding out is how your mind works.

Please stop. You're trying to disillusion him.

[robvalue]

I just realized what was bothering me about this thread's title. Atheists don't "convert" to theism. Atheism doesn't occupy the same place in a person's life as theism. Theism, assuming that means practicing one religion or another, involves particular expectations and rituals. Atheism is nothing like that. Atheism is just people getting on with their lives absent a belief in gods. So an atheist doesn't convert to theism, he merely takes it up rather than dismissing it.

I would say that you can convert to a religion, but if you just start believing in God, that's not a conversion. I suppose "convert" implies some sort of conscious decision, which atheism/theism is not.

[Neo-Scholastic]

I've answered this question in depth before:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-22860-po...#pid570496

Interestingly enough, the deeper I dig into the philosophical traditions of the Christian faith the more astounded I am of the subtlety of thought and careful distinctions the Schoolmen and Church Doctors made. The more I study, the certainty that God exists becomes increasing confirmed in my mind. 

I think what you are really finding out is how your mind works.

I say that I seem to learning, in a more general way, how mind works.

Nevertheless, your short response seems to confirm my statement that some more reactive atheists* do not give serious consideration to the positions they reject. While I would be unreasonable to expect anyone to immerse themselves in the Scholastic tradition like I have, I feel that dismissing it out-of-hand based demonstrates, at best, shallow reflection and, at worst, a kind of pathological contrariness.

*Not so much you, although your posts do seem, as of late, less comprehensive.

[Jehanne]

 While I would be unreasonable to expect anyone to immerse themselves in the Scholastic tradition like I have, I feel that dismissing it out-of-hand based demonstrates, at best, shallow reflection and, at worst, a kind of pathological contrariness.

The scholastic tradition, of course, held the Earth to be at the Center of the Universe, with Hell at the Center of the Earth with Heaven being above the Firmament.  By the way, are you a geocentrist?

[Neo-Scholastic]

The scholastic tradition, of course, held the Earth to be at the Center of the Universe, with Hell at the Center of the Earth with Heaven being above the Firmament.  By the way, are you a geocentrist?

Example of shallow reflection from an obvious idiot above.

[Jehanne]

The scholastic tradition, of course, held the Earth to be at the Center of the Universe, with Hell at the Center of the Earth with Heaven being above the Firmament.  By the way, are you a geocentrist?

Example of shallow reflection from an obvious idiot above.

Oh, really, consider this from Saint Robert Bellarmine, a Doctor of the Catholic Church:

First. I say that it seems to me that Your Reverence and Galileo did prudently to content yourself with speaking hypothetically, and not absolutely, as I have always believed that Copernicus spoke. For to say that, assuming the earth moves and the sun stands still, all the appearances are saved better than with eccentrics and epicycles is to speak well; there is no danger in this, and it is sufficient for mathematicians. But to want to affirm that the sun really is fixed in the center of the heavens and only revolves around itself (turns upon its axis) without traveling from east to west, and that the earth is situated in the third sphere and revolves with great speed around the sun, is a very dangerous thing, not only by irritating all the philosophers and scholastic theologians, but also by injuring our holy faith and rendering the Holy Scriptures false. For Your Reverence has demonstrated many ways of explaining Holy Scripture, but you have not applied them in particular, and without a doubt you would have found it most difficult if you had attempted to explain all the passages which you yourself have cited.

Second. I say that, as you know, the Council (of Trent) prohibits expounding the Scriptures contrary to the common agreement of the holy Fathers. And if Your Reverence would read not only the Fathers but also the commentaries of modern writers on Genesis, Psalms, Ecclesiastes and Josue, you would find that all agree in explaining literally (ad litteram) that the sun is in the heavens and moves swiftly around the earth, and that the earth is far from the heavens and stands immobile in the center of the universe. Now consider whether in all prudence the Church could encourage giving to Scripture a sense contrary to the holy fathers and all the Latin and Greek commentators...

http://www.wildheretic.com/heliocentric-.../?cid=8127