If Life is Meaningless Anyway, then What's Wrong with Religion?

[henryp]

Analogies are dumb, because there is no incentive for the other person to partake if they are just an argumentative person rather than being interested in discussion.  At the same time, that's how my mind organizes ideas.  Probably leftover from basic logic where you just stick in A's and B's into the equation to try and break it.  Not conducive to communicating with folks like you, but it's what I've got.

What I hoped to achieve, is to flush the idea out for myself mostly.  Maybe it adds to someone else's thinking.  

And for me it worked, because rather than a picnic analogy, or a video game analogy I passed on, or a long thing on misapplying meaning, and social conditioning and a bunch of other stuff, I truncated it all down to:

Endings can be satisfying.  

That's the idea I think you're missing with your unhappy/mentally ill position.

Endings can only be satisfying when they are restricted to experienced instances, not to individuals. Therein lies the problem with your analogy. You are trying to equate the ending of a picnic with that of a life.

Do you not think life is an experienced instance?

[Arkilogue]

Endings can only be satisfying when they are restricted to experienced instances, not to individuals. Therein lies the problem with your analogy. You are trying to equate the ending of a picnic with that of a life.

Do you not think life is an experienced instance?

And the inner accumulation thereof.

[Excited Penguin]

Endings can only be satisfying when they are restricted to experienced instances, not to individuals. Therein lies the problem with your analogy. You are trying to equate the ending of a picnic with that of a life.

Do you not think life is an experienced instance?

It can be, for the purpose of this discussion it isn't however. It is a set of such instances.

[Excited Penguin]

Life isn't a labor, and you won't be collecting any of its fruits after it ends. I am definitely not missing out in that regard, nor is anyone else.

How old are you, again?

I find it very hard to believe that you've witnessed something so preposterous as a direct link between time and an individual's welcoming of death. I expect some evidence on this count, and not the anecdotal kind, either.

I really don't care what you expect.

What you think you know is your problem, not mine. Thankfully, your education is not my responsibility.

Compounding an unsubstantiated claim with an appeal to authority, throwing a tantrum and innacurately describing my stated position will only work towards putting an end to this conversation.

[Arkilogue]

Do you not think life is an experienced instance?

It can be, for the purpose of this discussion it isn't however. It is a set of such instances.

Just like a train ride is a set of individual miles...which becomes an accumulation of multiple miles and a qualitative feeling of the total journey thus far.

[Thumpalumpacus]

How old are you, again?


I really don't care what you expect.

What you think you know is your problem, not mine. Thankfully, your education is not my responsibility.

Compounding an unsubstantiated claim with an appeal to authority, throwing a tantrum and innacurately describing my stated position will only work towards putting an end to this conversation.

1) It wasn't an appeal to authority -- I was asking for your bona fides. Tell me what you know about growing old, at your tender age?

2) No tantrum thrown, no anger felt, sorry to poke a hole in your goal.

3) The thought occurs to me that you don't really know what your own position is.

Finally, it was never really a conversation, because such requires listening from both sides of the conversation -- a quality you've yet to demonstrate in this thread. No big loss. I don't care to change your mind, but you clearly are invested otherwise. Enjoy yourself.

[Excited Penguin]

Compounding an unsubstantiated claim with an appeal to authority, throwing a tantrum and innacurately describing my stated position will only work towards putting an end to this conversation.

1) It wasn't an appeal to authority -- I was asking for your bona fides. Tell me what you know about growing old, at your tender age?

2) No tantrum thrown, no anger felt, sorry to poke a hole in your goal.

3) The thought occurs to me that you don't really know what your own position is.

Finally, it was never really a conversation, because such requires listening from both sides of the conversation -- a quality you've yet to demonstrate in this thread. No big loss. I don't care to change your mind, but you clearly are invested otherwise. Enjoy yourself.

You are appealing to subjective experience as a way to conclude that time alone makes one lose an appreciation for life. This is not something to be determined by such means, however. 

What one feels on the matter is not conclusive by itself, but rather why one feels as one does.

[Arkilogue]

You are appealing to subjective experience as a way to conclude that time alone makes one lose an appreciation for life. This is not something to be determined by such means, however. 

What one feels on the matter is not conclusive by itself, but rather why one feels as one does.

I'd say the reducing elasticity of "chemical bounce" by the body is a prime suspect.

And the over accumulation of irritants, physical and otherwise is another. You know what cleans both those out? A good fast.

I find a week long fast to be physically, mentally, and emotionally rejuvenating.

[Excited Penguin]

This is the most idiotic debate I've had in my life.

I'm done.

[CWoods]

One of my ex-girlfriends (a devout Mormon) told me essentially that she wasn't sure if Mormonism's religious claims were true, but that the Church made her happy.  I've thought many times that this stance, which seems fairly common among religious people, was inauthentic.  But given the existential crisis I'm facing right now about the meaninglessness of life, her position on the issue is sounding less and less crazy. 

[quote pid='1397379' dateline='1474480164']
Although I've been an atheist for decades, I'm sure churches and temples would not exist if they didn't provide something that benefitted or pleased their congregants or met their needs.  For some, it's simply a feeling of belonging which is a basic human need. For some it's the comfort of ritual. It might be the aesthetics of stained glass or religious music that draws them in. For many it is the thought that they will see loved ones again an in afterlife. Some find comfort in prayer or the caring and friendship of those who think and believe as they do. For some, I'm sure, it is the fear of what might happen if they didn't believe ---their families would reject them now, and they would go to hell later.

When my highly-religious sister was dying of cancer, members of her church drove her to chemotherapy appointments. They provided meals for the family when her husband still had to work full-time, take care of their children, and visit my sister when she was hospitalized.  Almost every time I went to the hospital to visit her, there was at least one member of her church there with her.

I know that if I were ever in the same position, no one except my husband would do all that for me. I have good friends, but in retirement, most of them have scattered far and wide and many are already in poor health themselves.  On the other hand, I don't like to be fussed over, so I'd probably prefer to suffer alone.

Yet, I cannot force myself to believe in something I don't think is true and I found some benefits to NOT being religious. I no longer feel guilty over every little thing.  I no longer feel like I can never be pious enough. I don't worry about an afterlife and have accepted that life ends when it ends. I know I can be good without a god. And I try to understand other people's points of view, even if I don't agree. I'm not afraid to be wrong and know I am more open to learning by not thinking I have all the answers.  (My experience with religion in my youth was that my parents religion supposedly had all the right answers and everyone else was wrong.)

__________
I've never quite understood all the fuss about "the meaning of life."  Why does there have to be a meaning?  I rarely even think about life's meaning.  To me, life is what it is and no more. I don't take it too seriously, although it is often quite serious.  It's often hard and often we have to do things we don't want to do. Every life has some sadness. disappointment, or even tragedy.  Sometimes life is full of pleasure and fun, or even funny.  But no one is happy all of the time.  We need to live to enjoy what we can ----and overcome what we can't.

However, life is also what we make it.

So what do you want life to be?  Maybe you need to decide that, first.  Then, doing what you have to do to make it so will be your life's meaning.

I suggest some daily goals. That could be some disagreeable but necessary chores and include something pleasurable and something that is good for you (like going to the gym.)

I suggest some longer-term goals, such as earning a degree, saving money for a trip, to buy a house or for retirement.

And then, there could be a bucket list.  I wish I had made one when I was young and done some things in my younger years when I was more physically capable.  I had some things in my head, such as traveling on a motorcycle across the U.S. or walking the length of my state (never did either.) But it's OK to delete, change, or add to a bucket list at any time. At age 21, you might want to acquire a certain type of job.  At age 30 you might decide you'd rather do something else.  At 20, it might sound fun to go to Cancun with friends, but at 40, you might rather relax at home for a week.

I did some things I wanted to do: I finished college, served in the Peace Corps, became a teacher, got married to someone with a sense of humor (twice, although my goal was only once), traveled a bit.  I saved enough so I could retire at age 54, but then changed plans and went back to work and RE-retired at 62.  I have always continued to learn by reading or taking courses. I've had art work accepted in prestigious exhibits and have had over 100 articles/short stories published. Some of those things would have been on my bucket list at age 20, but many would not.  For example, I only started to write seriously in my mid-30s.

Now, my list is filled with things I want to learn and places I haven't seen before or places I want to visit again. 

My life hasn't been perfect. I've been poor.  I've lost loved ones. I've had disappointments and experienced tragedy. But I can say I'm one of the happiest people I know. Maybe it's because I don't take it all too seriously or worry about its meaning.




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