Thoughts On Atheism and Faith

[pocaracas]

What do you mean?

The god of the bible, who made us out of dirt,

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who drowned the earth, 

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who rained toads on people (or somesuch),

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and split a sea for a murderous fugitive.  

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-11383620

Pretty easy to assert that this god doesn't exist -as th believer takes the phrase to mean, and then demonstrate it...because none of that shit happened.

Come now! How do you explain all that shit?!

Simultaneously hilarious, because one does not need to assert that this god does not exist, to disbelieve, or lack belief in it.  It plainly and clearly does exist, as a character in a work of fiction - not that this concession would be all that satisfying to the faithful.

Just as much as Darth Vader exists... aye.

[Excited Penguin]

You must have faith that the tooth fairy or santa claus don't exist huh?

No, its called the burden of proof. It is up for those that claim something to exist to show others said thing exist.

Good try on the old "atjeists have faith too" canard. You guys never bring something new to the table, like, Evidence for your god claims. Heck, you cant even properly define what a god is.

Most of this is ad hominems, but I will respond to the one rebuttal you made:


"No, its called the burden of proof. It is up for those that claim something to exist to show others said thing exist."

The idea of a "burden of proof" is a matter of preference.
Just because one is not able to prove something, does not necessarily mean it isn't true.

The one who says "God does not exist" is presenting an assertion that can either be true of false. Therefore, for that statement to be accepted as true, it must be proven to be true, or the opposite of the statement can be proven to be false, or proof by contradiction.

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That wich is Asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

It doesn't require faith. Faith is believing something without evidence. Disbelief requires therefore no faith. Pretty easy.

"That wich is Asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
The idea of a "burden of proof" is a matter of preference.
Just because one is not able to prove something, does not necessarily mean it isn't true.


"It doesn't require faith. Faith is believing something without evidence. Disbelief requires therefore no faith. Pretty easy."
I would say you do believe in something, you believe "There is no God".
I am proposing that the only way to be 100% certain of this assertion is to formally disprove God. Do you have a formal disproof of God?

Ray, you're engaging in a bit of strawmanning yourself. No one here, as far as I know, is an absolute atheist. All of us are agnostic atheists. What that means is, we're not 100% on the non-belief scale concerning God(s) in general. Some of us can say with 100% that certain types of God(s) don't exist, however. The only evidence we have for that is that they are logically impossible and self-contradictory, the way they are described in their holy books. That's all the evidence you need, really, if evidence is to even mean anything at all in this world.

[Crossless2.0]

It's interesting how the OP, like so many others, wants to argue against a vanishingly small subset of actual atheists when there are so many believers who claim gnosis with regard to their religious beliefs. Hell, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone who "knows" there is a god, that Jesus was the Christ and rose from the dead, etc. OP would find more fertile ground arguing with members of his own camp.

[downbeatplumb]

So I will ask the atheist:
Have you formally disproved God?

And the atheist says to me:
No, that's incredibly difficult, and perhaps even impossible.

I reply:
Does the difficulty of the process exempt you from having the disprove something to call it disproved?
Is something that is impossible to disprove automatically assumed to be false in every case?

The atheist:
No.

I reply:
You have not logically or factually disproved God.
Not all things that are impossible to disprove are assumed to be false.

Therefore, it takes faith to believe the assertion "God does not exist".

The atheist:
Can you formally prove God does exist?

I reply:
As far as I know there is not a mathematical proof of God, the theists require faith as well.

And so:
The christians, in their faith, proclaim "God is real".
The atheists, in their faith, proclaim "God is fake".

Define god.

I want to know what it is. where it came from. What it is made of . How it does any of the things ascribed to it. How big is it. What does it look like and why I should give a fuck.

[The Grand Nudger]

Come now! How do you explain all that shit?!

Even easier than demonstrating that their god doesn't exist.  Credulous and ignorant human beings -do-.  Not that this fact, will satisfy, them.....lol.

Truth is, they get exactly what they're asking for, but they don't actually -want- what they're asking for, and it doesn't affect their beliefs..it isn't even relevant. It's not a failure to understand the world around them which leads to such beliefs, but a failure to understand themselves....which, ironically, is what all these god stories have been trying to get at in the first place. Watching a fundy implode, I can't help but wonder why they got so little out of the stories they believe in..when I got so much even though I didn't.

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[Thumpalumpacus]

So I will ask the atheist:
Have you formally disproved God?

And the atheist says to me:
No, that's incredibly difficult, and perhaps even impossible.

I reply:
Does the difficulty of the process exempt you from having the disprove something to call it disproved?
Is something that is impossible to disprove automatically assumed to be false in every case?

The atheist:
No.

I reply:
You have not logically or factually disproved God.
Not all things that are impossible to disprove are assumed to be false.

Therefore, it takes faith to believe the assertion "God does not exist".

The atheist:
Can you formally prove God does exist?

I reply:
As far as I know there is not a mathematical proof of God, the theists require faith as well.

And so:
The christians, in their faith, proclaim "God is real".
The atheists, in their faith, proclaim "God is fake".

Wrong ... I'm an agnostic atheist.

Next!

[ray3400]

I have respect for all those who seek truth.
I may disagree with atheists, but I can still respect them as people regardless. I do not see how disrespect will accelerate our arrival at absolute truth and understanding of the universe, if that is your greater purpose.

With that said, having read all of your responses, I would like to finish with expressing my stance on any form of skepticism in a God, or atheism.
(Knowing full well it will be mocked and picked apart, I accept the critical analysis, but do not understand the necessity of disrespect.
I am simply doing this to express my belief, not to prove it. Some may not care, and that's fine by me, but I personally think everyone's belief has some value as we are all going through the experience of being human and existing in the universe.)

God exists and is truth itself. Moreover, not just any God, but only God as referred to in the bible.
Those who seek truth and find truth, whether by means of skepticism, science, or faith, will ultimately arrive at the Christian God.
And thus, if the atheist was successful in finding truth, they would find the Christian God.
If the scientist was to one day know all, they would come to the conclusion of the Christian God.

[pocaracas]

Bahahahaha!
Haha
Hee hee
hoo hoo

Oh boy...a standard LOL just would not convey how funny that was!

[Whateverist]

God exists and is truth itself. Moreover, not just any God, but only God as referred to in the bible.
Those who seek truth and find truth, whether by means of skepticism, science, or faith, will ultimately arrive at the Christian God.

I guess it is when expressions of faith invade empirical claims that theists just look foolish.  Can't you distinguish between what you wish for and what you have reason to be certain of?  Guess not.  

It should be funny but I just can't help feeling sorry for this guy.  The poor bastard really doesn't have a chance, does he?

[robvalue]

God is truth itself? What does that even mean? I have no idea.

It's pretty good at hiding, I'll give it that. I've noticed not one trace in 39 years and it's had zero relevance. So I think I'll be okay.