Current time: 17th April 2014, 17:02

Our server costs $125 a month to run. Since November 2013 we have raised $280!
Please help keep our community online by donating what you can.
Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Challenge - Scientific reason for being moral.
21st September 2010, 05:08 (This post was last modified: 23rd September 2010 14:33 by Scott Richens.)
Post: #1
    4 years membership!
Challenge - Scientific reason for being moral.
A Christian friend of mine has set me a challenge –

He says I need a scientific reason for being moral and for living by the secular humanism philosophy. He believes I must have no reason other than a scientific one because I use science to rationalize my claims about the existence of any deities.

I’m not sure how to answer this because I haven’t yet explored it properly. I’m not entirely sure if there really does have to be a scientific reason... I mean... I guess so. But how would I go about answering this?
On spot, I said my scientific reason is because it works... and it’s been proven. Because helping others works for the benefit of my own race and has proved equally beneficial for myself.

He didn’t seem to think that was valid... he didn’t even give me a reason why. Of course, I’m not simply thinking my argument isn’t valid...
I would like to be able to build a better argument...
Perspective goes a long way to finding some acceptance.

When I say I don't need salvation, I'm saying I don't need a sky daddy to forgive me for being born.

"We need not a God; just another human being to give life a meaning. For people are truly all people have" author unknown
Rate user Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
21st September 2010, 05:45
Post: #2
  6k posts! 5 years membership!
RE: Challenge - Scientific reason for being moral.
Quote:He says I need a scientific reason for being moral and for living by the secular humanism philosophy.

No, you don't.

Your friend is an ignoramus,I really wouldn't bother Be.like trying to communicate with an Orangutang. However,if you must:

Refer him to the notion of ETHICS, aka moral philosophy,based on reason,not science..,


Quote:Ethics (also known as moral philosophy) is a branch of philosophy that addresses questions about morality — that is, concepts such as good and evil, right and wrong, justice, virtue, etc.
Major branches of ethics include:
Meta-ethics, about the theoretical meaning and reference of moral propositions and how their truth-values (if any) may be determined;
Normative ethics, about the practical means of determining a moral course of action;
Applied ethics, about how moral outcomes can be achieved in specific situations;
Moral psychology, about how moral capacity or moral agency develops and what its nature is; and
Descriptive ethics, about what moral values people actually abide by.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_philosophy
Man is not so much a rational animal as a rationalising one.
Rate user Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
21st September 2010, 06:34
Post: #3
    3 years membership!
RE: Challenge - Scientific reason for being moral.
Scientific answer.


Quote:Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

Gandalf The Gray.
Rate user Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
21st September 2010, 17:37
Post: #4
  3k posts! 4 years membership!
RE: Challenge - Scientific reason for being moral.
@Padriac- So reason alone is indicative without scientifc evidence? I think the point was to defend his lack of scientific evidence of the existance of God.

In the video it says... "Where ever else it comes from it's not from scripture" when if some use scripture to better their own personal morality. Those individuals are then part of society which shapes societal morality. Societal Morality is at least partially based on the Bible (or at the very least people who use the Bible). His contention is that any influence from the Bible would be counter productive to furthering altruis, but one of the key proponents of Biblical teachings are to love thy neighbor as you would want to be loved. Seems to be an inaccurate and unfounded statement.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

"A lot of people are unwilling to acknowledge anything that contradicts their worldview. So telling them that it's false doesn't necessarily slow them down. That's how urban legends get started for the most case. Like the woman who supposedly put her poodle in the microwave to dry it off. And it exploded." David Mikkelson (snopes)
Rate user Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
21st September 2010, 19:07
Post: #5
  5k posts! 5 years membership!
RE: Challenge - Scientific reason for being moral.
(21st September 2010 05:08)Scott Richens Wrote:  A Christian friend of mine has set me a challenge –

He says I need a scientific reason for being moral and for living by the secular humanism philosophy. He believes I must have no reason other than a scientific one because I use science to rationalize my claims about the existence of any deities.

I’m not sure how to answer this because I haven’t yet explored it properly. I’m not entirely sure if there really does have to be a scientific reason... I mean... I guess so. But how would I go about answering this?
On spot, I said my scientific reason is because it works... and it’s been proven. Because helping others works for the benefit of my own race and has proved equally beneficial for myself.

He didn’t seem to think that was valid... he didn’t even give me a reason why. Of course, I’m not simply thinking my argument isn’t valid... I think the problem is mainly him... he doesn’t want to hear it and just blocks it out. He wants to have me stumped. I would like to be able to build a better argument...

Scientific answer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_evolution
there are 10 kinds of people.

Those that understand binary and those that don't.
Rate user Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
21st September 2010, 20:23
Post: #6
    3 years membership!
RE: Challenge - Scientific reason for being moral.
(21st September 2010 17:37)tackattack Wrote:  @Padriac- So reason alone is indicative without scientifc evidence? I think the point was to defend his lack of scientific evidence of the existance of God.

In the video it says... "Where ever else it comes from it's not from scripture" when if some use scripture to better their own personal morality. Those individuals are then part of society which shapes societal morality. Societal Morality is at least partially based on the Bible (or at the very least people who use the Bible). His contention is that any influence from the Bible would be counter productive to furthering altruis, but one of the key proponents of Biblical teachings are to love thy neighbor as you would want to be loved. Seems to be an inaccurate and unfounded statement.

The moss copied 7 commandments from the Egyptian book of the dead
Rate user Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
21st September 2010, 20:27
Post: #7
    3 years membership!
RE: Challenge - Scientific reason for being moral.
(21st September 2010 05:08)Scott Richens Wrote:  A Christian friend of mine has set me a challenge –

He says I need a scientific reason for being moral and for living by the secular humanism philosophy. He believes I must have no reason other than a scientific one because I use science to rationalize my claims about the existence of any deities.

He didn’t seem to think that was valid... he didn’t even give me a reason why. Of course, I’m not simply thinking my argument isn’t valid... I think the problem is mainly him... he doesn’t want to hear it and just blocks it out. He wants to have me stumped. I would like to be able to build a better argument...

It's pretty simple how to answer this- firstly your friend (although why you want to be friends with a person like that is beyond me) needs to be reminded that you don't have to explain or justify your position. Your views are based on logic and common sense, and common sense has been around far longer than the idea of gods, christianity or supposed morality. A neanderthal understood that if he stuck a spear in his friend, his friend would die, therefore he wouldn't do it. That is common sense.

Christians love to claim a monopoly on morality, but they have no basis for this whatsoever.

Furthermore, after many attempts myself, I would no longer bother trying to deconvert a christian. Because frankly this planet was ours long before it was taken over by the sheep and their god of delusions; it's christianity that is the new kid on the block, not atheists, and the way it swaggers about proclaiming hither and dither is well deserving of an ass kicking.

Devil
[Image: cassandrasaid.jpg]
Rate user Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Kudos given by (1): Scott Richens
21st September 2010, 20:30 (This post was last modified: 21st September 2010 20:30 by Entropist.)
Post: #8
    3 years membership!
RE: Challenge - Scientific reason for being moral.
Who needs a scientific answer when you have George Carlin?



“Society is not a disease, it is a disaster. What a stupid miracle that one can live in it.” ~ E.M. Cioran
Rate user Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Kudos given by (2): EvidenceVersusFaith, Scott Richens
21st September 2010, 20:34
Post: #9
  3k posts! 4 years membership!
RE: Challenge - Scientific reason for being moral.
Ashendant.. back up your claim with specifics.. I count maybe 3 at a stretch.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

"A lot of people are unwilling to acknowledge anything that contradicts their worldview. So telling them that it's false doesn't necessarily slow them down. That's how urban legends get started for the most case. Like the woman who supposedly put her poodle in the microwave to dry it off. And it exploded." David Mikkelson (snopes)
Rate user Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
21st September 2010, 20:41
Post: #10
    3 years membership!
RE: Challenge - Scientific reason for being moral.
(21st September 2010 20:34)tackattack Wrote:  Ashendant.. back up your claim with specifics.. I count maybe 3 at a stretch.

He's right, I already brought this up recently ..

http://atheistforums.org/thread-4684.html
[Image: cassandrasaid.jpg]
Rate user Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Was Jesus a great moral teacher? xpastor 51 750 14th April 2014 18:55
Last Post: archangle
  A Challenge for the Atheist eeeeeee7 37 1373 11th January 2014 06:44
Last Post: Bad Writer
  What is your strongest reason for believing atheism is true? ShinobiAtheist 76 4461 4th January 2014 01:17
Last Post: Simon Moon
  The Moral Challenge GodsRevolt 22 993 5th November 2013 13:13
Last Post: ToriJ
  The Age of Reason The Reality Salesman 0 183 19th October 2013 12:04
Last Post: The Reality Salesman
  How we won the James Randi $1,000,000 Paranormal Challenge deltoidmachine 24 1911 22nd August 2013 17:04
Last Post: gall
  Scientific Morality! It's about time! Magnum 58 3171 8th August 2013 19:01
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  Teaching Reason (to Children) Bad Writer 61 3254 16th July 2013 05:52
Last Post: Fruity
Video Richard Dawkins - The Enemies Of Reason (Documentary) Woody68 0 290 13th May 2013 00:19
Last Post: Woody68
  Meliorism - The rise of neo-atheism and the fall of reason ManMachine 118 14147 25th April 2013 09:25
Last Post: ManMachine



User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)