When do statistics count?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

You're looking at it wrong - you have to factor in the numbers in the groups doing the shooting and killing.

There are about 700 000 full time law enforcement officers in the US. 1000 deaths by cop equals 0.00143.

There are roughly 80 000 000 civilian firearm owners in the US. 45 000 deaths by civilian equals 0.000562.

This means you are approximately 2.5 time MORE likely to be shot and killed by one of the boys in blue than you are by a member of the public.

Boru

Isn't it depressing that the only cop apologists can make the police seem less worryingly gun-happy is by comparing them to average joes on the street or suicide victims or oceanic predators?

A slightly more simplistic (but also more illustrative way) to look at it is:

80 000 000 civilians kill 45 000 people per year with guns.

700 000 cops kill 1000 people per year with guns.

If there were as many cops as there are armed civilians, - and nothing else changed - deaths by cop would be in the neighbourhood of 114 000 per year, with no change in the number of gun deaths by civilians. The chief reason that cops kill - in raw numbers - fewer people than armed civilians do is that there are fewer cops.

Boru

[Jehanne]

Isn't it depressing that the only cop apologists can make the police seem less worryingly gun-happy is by comparing them to average joes on the street or suicide victims or oceanic predators?

A slightly more simplistic (but also more illustrative way) to look at it is:

80 000 000 civilians kill 45 000 people per year with guns.

700 000 cops kill 1000 people per year with guns.

If there were as many cops as there are armed civilians, - and nothing else changed - deaths by cop would be in the neighbourhood of 114 000 per year, with no change in the number of gun deaths by civilians. The chief reason that cops kill - in raw numbers - fewer people than armed civilians do is that there are fewer cops.

Boru

Cops deal with dangerous criminals on a regular, if not daily basis, and so, there is a selection effect going on here. Imagine buying a pair of handcuffs. You as a private citizen could carry them around with you all day; you'll never use them as part of some (legal) citizen's arrest.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

A slightly more simplistic (but also more illustrative way) to look at it is:

80 000 000 civilians kill 45 000 people per year with guns.

700 000 cops kill 1000 people per year with guns.

If there were as many cops as there are armed civilians, - and nothing else changed - deaths by cop would be in the neighbourhood of 114 000 per year, with no change in the number of gun deaths by civilians. The chief reason that cops kill - in raw numbers - fewer people than armed civilians do is that there are fewer cops.

Boru

Cops deal with dangerous criminals on a regular, if not daily basis, and so, there is a selection effect going on here.  Imagine buying a pair of handcuffs.  You as a private citizen could carry them around with you all day; you'll never use them as part of some (legal) citizen's arrest.

Cops deal with dangerous suspects on a sporadic basis (while you didn't explicitly say it, I just want to note that I'm fed up with the notion that copping is a dangerous profession).

But I'm not sure the reasons for shooting people is germane to the OP's point, which seems to be that you're less likely to be shot by a cop than by a civilian, full stop. That's simply not true.

Boru

[The Architect Of Fate]

Cops deal with dangerous criminals on a regular, if not daily basis, and so, there is a selection effect going on here.  Imagine buying a pair of handcuffs.  You as a private citizen could carry them around with you all day; you'll never use them as part of some (legal) citizen's arrest.

Cops deal with dangerous suspects on a sporadic basis (while you didn't explicitly say it, I just want to note that I'm fed up with the notion that copping is a dangerous profession).

But I'm not sure the reasons for shooting people is germane to the OP's point, which seems to be that you're less likely to be shot by a cop than by a civilian, full stop. That's simply not true.

Boru

And even if it was true it's an extremely poor defense of the police

[onlinebiker]

Cops deal with dangerous criminals on a regular, if not daily basis, and so, there is a selection effect going on here.  Imagine buying a pair of handcuffs.  You as a private citizen could carry them around with you all day; you'll never use them as part of some (legal) citizen's arrest.

Cops deal with dangerous suspects on a sporadic basis (while you didn't explicitly say it, I just want to note that I'm fed up with the notion that copping is a dangerous profession).

But I'm not sure the reasons for shooting people is germane to the OP's point, which seems to be that you're less likely to be shot by a cop than by a civilian, full stop. That's simply not true.

Boru

You do have a flair for twisting the numbers.


The numbers speak for themselves.



In the USA, the odds of you being shot by a civilian are over 20 times higher than being shot by a cop.

Period.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Cops deal with dangerous suspects on a sporadic basis (while you didn't explicitly say it, I just want to note that I'm fed up with the notion that copping is a dangerous profession).

But I'm not sure the reasons for shooting people is germane to the OP's point, which seems to be that you're less likely to be shot by a cop than by a civilian, full stop. That's simply not true.

Boru

You do have a flair for twisting the numbers.


The numbers speak for themselves.



In the USA, the odds of you being shot by a civilian are over 20 times higher than being shot by a cop.

Period.

Of course the numbers speak for themselves, you just don’t understand what they’re saying.

Because the number of cops is 114 times less than the number of armed civilians, you’re statistically MORE likely to be shot and killed by a cop. That’s how statistics work.

Boru

[onlinebiker]

You do have a flair for twisting the numbers.


The numbers speak for themselves.



In the USA, the odds of you being shot by a civilian are over 20 times higher than being shot by a cop.

Period.

Of course the numbers speak for themselves, you just don’t understand what they’re saying.

Because the number of cops is 114 times less than the number of armed civilians, you’re statistically MORE likely to be shot and killed by a cop. That’s how statistics work.

Boru

Bullshit.

It says a cop is more likely to shoot SOMEONE than a civilian. But they are less likely to shoot you.

YOU are over 20 times more likely to be shot by a civilian.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Of course the numbers speak for themselves, you just don’t understand what they’re saying.

Because the number of cops is 114 times less than the number of armed civilians, you’re statistically MORE likely to be shot and killed by a cop. That’s how statistics work.

Boru

Bullshit.

It says a cop is more likely to shoot SOMEONE than a civilian. But they are less likely to shoot you.

YOU are over 20 times more likely to be shot by a civilian.

Nope to all three. Learn what 'statistically' means and get back to me.

Boru

[onlinebiker]

Bullshit.

It says a cop is more likely to shoot SOMEONE than a civilian. But they are less likely to shoot you.

YOU are over 20 times more likely to be shot by a civilian.

Nope to all three. Learn what 'statistically' means and get back to me.

Boru

Quit making up your mind - then twisting numbers till they fit your desired outcome - and I will get back to you.

[arewethereyet]

I am skeptical of statistics at times. They are often skewed based on who is collecting the data, and why.