Muslim Child Abuse

[Napoléon]

I've gotta say, I know I've already posted a couple of threads in quick succession on muslims, but this religion is really getting up my nose recently.

Here is an example of why the UK banned corporal punishment in classrooms:

For me hitting children with sticks is not civilised.

[Rhythm]

That "Teacher" has impressive form. Notice the full extension at point of contact, and the amount of force transferred from the implement to the subject. I wonder how long it took to get good at that.

[Rayaan]

I hate mean teachers like this, but not Islam.

[Rhythm]

Is there any basis in the Koran for this type of punishment? Is it completely the invention of the people perpetrating it? Rayaan, Adam?

You know I really need to start typing Qu'ran instead of Koran..lol, apologize for that.

[Rayaan]

(29th June 2011 18:22)Rhythm Wrote:  Is there any basis in the Koran for this type of punishment?

No.

(29th June 2011 18:22)Rhythm Wrote:  Is it completely the invention of the people perpetrating it?

Yes.

[Rhythm]

Would it be fair to say, in your opinion, that the Qu'ran does not condone domestic violence? Are children specifically exempt, or are all members of the family exempt?

[Rayaan]

(29th June 2011 18:31)Rhythm Wrote:  Would it be fair to say, in your opinion, that the Qu'ran does not condone domestic violence? Are children specifically exempt, or are all members of the family exempt?

According to my knowledge, the answer is no.

On the contrary, the Quran encourages kind treatment with one's family members. See this: Islam and Domestic Violence

[Rhythm]

Absolutely, I'll check that out. Mind taking the time to clarify 4:34 for me (and the lurkers here on the forums)

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth.
So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard.
But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance -

[first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

The bolding is mine. I have a fantastically beautiful Qu'ran, given to me by a man I respect greatly. Sadly I don't speak or read any arabic dialect, and so I have to rely on translations which I have no way of checking the accuracy of other than appealing to authority.

Yes I do see that this is touched upon in the link, but alot of people wont visit it. Gives you a chance to set the record straight there.

[Minimalist]

Quote:Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other

Um...how about

Quote:Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other because men wrote the fucking thing.

[Rayaan]

(29th June 2011 18:51)Rhythm Wrote:  Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth.
So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard.
But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance -

The husband's obligations, as defined in this verse, are to help them providing financial support to his wife, as well as using his natural superiorities, such as strength, in the context of being the wife's guardian and protector. The 'obedience' of the woman being referred to in this verse is that of protecting the property of the husband, his honor, and guarding the secrets, which are natural corollaries to the obligations of the husband according to the Quran.

(29th June 2011 18:51)Rhythm Wrote:  [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

The man is told to advice first, meaning rationally discuss, and if this doesn't work, he can detach himself emotionally and physically (i.e. the last two options). Hence the "striking" is mentioned, which is there only as a permission, but he doesn't have to strike her. Discussing with her is the most important because it is mentioned before anything else.

To many of the macho and arrogant Arabs it was unheard of to discuss with their wives. They viewed them as inferior and trying to engage in a discussion would be a psychological blow to their ego, yet they are being commanded to do so in the Quran. If a husband tries to use this verse to mistreat his wife, then he is committing a sin and abusing his position as a husband in every measure, and he will find no support from the text or from the force of law, as the same verse (4:34) says that he is the guardian and protector, not an enforcer of his own desires.