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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 3, 2011 at 12:31 pm
(This post was last modified: August 3, 2011 at 12:33 pm by Napoléon.)
(August 3, 2011 at 2:36 am)PlatinumDoodles Wrote: If you say that something can exist without the need to prove it, then why can't God exist without us proving that he/she/whatever does?
For all intents and purposes a god may exist, but to entertain the notion without any reason to do so is pointless.
(August 3, 2011 at 3:27 am)PlatinumDoodles Wrote: That is exactly my point. Without anyone in it, all the universe would be is a useless place in which everything that happened within wouldn't matter because the universe would end in blackness for eternity (or repeat the process for eternity) and the time that all takes to happen would also be meaningless. There would be no point to the passage of time.
Time is a human construct anyway. What makes you think that by having conciousness things suddenly matter?
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 3, 2011 at 10:07 pm
(August 3, 2011 at 12:31 pm)Napoleon Wrote: Time is a human construct anyway. What makes you think that by having conciousness things suddenly matter?
No, it isn't... All the best physics suggests that time is a dimension, it is just as real as the spatial dimensions, our experience of it differs in that we cannot freely traverse it, we are pulled along with the change in what could be called "plank frames" representing the smallest possible units of change - I suspect that the passage of time is directly related to the increase in entropy in the universe, because entropy always increases and information is always conserved it would not be possible to reverse time, that would reverse entropy, and you could not go back in time because your interaction with the past would destroy the information conserved from your past - You would change the information from that moment in time all the way forwards - the information from your past, the one without your presence in some prior moment of time, would be lost.
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 3, 2011 at 10:24 pm
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 4, 2011 at 6:32 am
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2011 at 6:34 am by Welsh cake.)
(August 3, 2011 at 1:38 am)PlatinumDoodles Wrote: My point is: If there was no consciousness in any universe in the multiverse, there would be no one to prove that it existed, if one cannot prove it, one cannot say for certain that it exists. I feel that the multiverse somehow has it's own laws of "physics" that force consciousness to come about. To address your question in the OP; short answer: yes.
Long answer: the consciousness or consciousnesses are physical phenomena, naturally occurring biological processes that arise from one’s own brain chemistry that exist within reality, consciousness is dependant upon matter, cosmos and the universe, conversely the universe is independent of minds to perceive them, to argue contrariwise, that the universe requires a mind is to argue for Solipsism which is an asinine waste of time and effort as the egocentric view flies in the face of everything we've come to learn and understand about what is real i.e. existence.
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 4, 2011 at 10:36 am
(August 3, 2011 at 10:07 pm)theVOID Wrote: (August 3, 2011 at 12:31 pm)Napoleon Wrote: Time is a human construct anyway. What makes you think that by having conciousness things suddenly matter?
No, it isn't... All the best physics suggests that time is a dimension, it is just as real as the spatial dimensions, our experience of it differs in that we cannot freely traverse it, we are pulled along with the change in what could be called "plank frames" representing the smallest possible units of change - I suspect that the passage of time is directly related to the increase in entropy in the universe, because entropy always increases and information is always conserved it would not be possible to reverse time, that would reverse entropy, and you could not go back in time because your interaction with the past would destroy the information conserved from your past - You would change the information from that moment in time all the way forwards - the information from your past, the one without your presence in some prior moment of time, would be lost.
I meant time as in the measurement of time, by what we see as an hour, a day, a second etc. Those labels were created by us. My own fault for not specifiying.
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 4, 2011 at 10:38 am
This is of course what we are trying to impress upon the OP Nap. He is equating his description of the universe with the existence of the universe. Such is not actually the case.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 4, 2011 at 10:41 am
(August 4, 2011 at 10:38 am)Rhythm Wrote: This is of course what we are trying to impress upon the OP Nap. He is equating his description of the universe with the existence of the universe. Such is not actually the case.
Thanks for the pro tip Barry.
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 4, 2011 at 10:43 am
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 4, 2011 at 10:44 am
I'll give you a million pretzels if you do a cover and post it here.
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RE: Can the Universe Exist without consciousness?
August 4, 2011 at 11:01 am
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2011 at 11:13 am by The Grand Nudger.)
The only sanctioned use of my singing voice is under the wifes strict supervision. To question her authority in this regard would lead to beheadings. The pitfalls of being a kept man.
(beheadings of the type one would survive, btw)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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