Fairy tales won over science: a man must die today

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

Wait...
I think I have it:
1.)This man allegedly was wrongfully convicted due to racism. (specifically, the belief that black people are more violent)
2.)It is a myth that violence is determined by race (or a fairy tale, merely syntax)
3.)Therefore, the fairytale that lead to his conviction is responsible for his death? Yes?
4.)Racism is basically a religion (belief with little or no facts)
5.)This topic belongs under the religion section

[Shell B]

They are executing a black man in the south, Shel. How much more of a religion do you want?

It's racial. Sorry. There is no mention of religion in the article.

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I note you simply ignore my post #3.
And failed to notify me of your decision and action.
Typical.

I'm sorry that you took it so poorly, but I did notify you in this thread that it was being moved. A post that says fairy tales and religion are the same does not explain why a legal catastrophe has anything to do with religion. I don't know how my actions were "typical." As far as I can recall, I have never so much as fixed one of your quotes. I have now, though, which sucks.

Besides, it doesn't make sense: this section "Off Topic" is subtitled "Open up to some light hearted discussion".
You've got a perverted sense of humor if you consider a miscarriage of justice that kills a man a light hearted discussion, my friend. And a serious social problem.

Calm down. It is "off-topic" because there is no legal section. Tell me what that has to do with religion and I will move your thread back to the religion section.

[MilesTailsPrower]

That's odd, I was just reading To Kill a Mockingbird

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In regards to Troy Davis:
Are we not a nation capable of critical cognitive skills? Are we not able to tell what’s right from wrong? Are they no better than the faceless bigots who prosecuted the ScottsBoro boys? Are we still stuck in the past repeating the same mistakes that our ancestors committed? Are we not able to transcend from our racial prejudices, and give everyone the freedom they deserve? How can one sit around and take another life without sentiment towards what he has prosecuted out of pure hatred for his own race. Is this nation ever going to escape the doctrines of racial prejudice, long enough to provide an un-calculable aspiration to accumulate a brief dexterity of a civilized contemporary society from which our future generations can live in? Are we all doomed to repeat the past?

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
– George Santayana

[leo-rcc]

The execution of Troy Davis was protested by religious and non religious people all over the world. The matter was one of wanting a re-trial to present new evidence which was denied, not one of setting the man free. When it comes to the death penalty, the finality of the sentence makes it especially important that all evidence is weighed, even if that evidence surfaces later. A posthumous pardon is of use to no-one. If even several death penalty supporters call out for a stay, then there must be a case to be made surely.

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Too late now anyway.

[bozo]

The man died following many years of mental strain awaiting whether his appeal was successful or not.
From what is reported, his conviction may be unsafe.
The whole sorry spectacle is no advert for capital punishment and just possibly his death may lead to less executions in the futuer.

[Cinjin]

None of us here know the specifics of the case.

What witnesses were credible? How many recanted? How many did not recant? Did the appeals process present any new information? Was there additional evidence that we are not aware of? A weapon? A blood stained shirt? Powder residue on his hands? We just don't know. We don't even know for a fact that race was indeed an issue, as it is a political card often played as a means to an end. We don't know that he was a dirty cop or if he was a innocent victim who left behind a wife and three kids. Did the justice system fail him? From the outside it appears that the State of Georgia made a 20 year effort to give this man every opportunity, and finally had to give the real victims some justice.

My point? It's all speculation on our part. This man may have been guilty, he may not have been. There's no way we can know, and therefore I personally can't make a judgement call on this particular execution.

In reference to the death penalty in general (not this case), I say if you take another persons life in cold blood, you forfeit your own. What use does any society have for the lawless violent behavior of a person willing to take a life at random ... or even worse, for pleasure?

[Shell B]

None of us here know the specifics of the case.

Actually, I familiarized myself with the case recently.

What witnesses were credible? How many recanted? How many did not recant?

At least five said their testimony was coerced by police. Some even said that another man confessed the murder to them -- three to be exact. As for how many did not recant, I am not sure. However, there weren't any "witnesses" to the crime itself.

Did the appeals process present any new information? Was there additional evidence that we are not aware of? A weapon? A blood stained shirt? Powder residue on his hands? We just don't know.

We do know. There was no new information, apart from the new testimony, as far as I know. They never found the weapon. There was no physical evidence. Unfortunately, there may have been, but the initial search of Davis' house was done illegally, so the clothes they found were not able to be used as evidence. Whether there was blood on them or not, I am not sure.

The fact of the matter is that he damn well may have been guilty, but there was more than a shadow of a doubt.

[Cinjin]

The fact of the matter is that he damn well may have been guilty, but there was more than a shadow of a doubt.

That's my point shell. From our perspective there was more than a shadow of a doubt, but since the only information we can get is second, third or fourth hand we simply cannot know for sure.


On an unrelated point: Me personally, I'd rather opt for the death penalty vs. a lifetime in prison. I just couldn't take it. Freedom is everything to me.

[Autumnlicious]

That's my point shell. From our perspective there was more than a shadow of a doubt, but since the only information we can get is second, third or fourth hand we simply cannot know for sure.

Then committing an irrevocable act (of execution) should be intolerable to you, instead of postulating as to "Will we really know?".

On an unrelated point: Me personally, I'd rather opt for the death penalty vs. a lifetime in prison. I just couldn't take it. Freedom is everything to me.

Unfortunately, granting the self determination to the presumed guilty to choose suicide or life in prison only opens up new avenues to potential illegal coercion and manipulation by unwatched, unpoliced entities (*cough cough*prison gaurds *cough cough*).

Furthermore, as life in prison is considered intolerable to you, and no doubt others, were you to be mistakenly or illegally imprisoned by the state, your choice to commit suicide is a Sophie's choice and once again, protected against.

This is why offering suicide in prison as an alternative to life imprisonment is unethical and illegal.

[Cinjin]

That's my point shell. From our perspective there was more than a shadow of a doubt, but since the only information we can get is second, third or fourth hand we simply cannot know for sure.

Then committing an irrevocable act (of execution) should be intolerable to you, instead of postulating as to "Will we really know?".

It's not intolerable to me because those who do have ALL the first hand knowledge also have the responsibility. I cannot judge their decision any more than I can judge the decisions of jury's in thousands of cases across this country that I also have no knowledge of. Those who are involved directly have to answer to their own conscience just as I would were I to be directly involved with this particular case. I cannot find something intolerable for which I do not have all the facts. That would be an irrational emotion in my opinion. I have no choice but to assume that those responsible have done the best job the could do with what they have been given. I'm also not much into believing in the conspiracy that the judicial body of the entire Southern United States has it in for black people.

On an unrelated point: Me personally, I'd rather opt for the death penalty vs. a lifetime in prison. I just couldn't take it. Freedom is everything to me.

Unfortunately, granting the self determination to the presumed guilty to choose suicide or life in prison only opens up new avenues to potential illegal coercion and manipulation by unwatched, unpoliced entities (*cough cough*prison gaurds *cough cough*).

Furthermore, as life in prison is considered intolerable to you, and no doubt others, were you to be mistakenly or illegally imprisoned by the state, your choice to commit suicide is a Sophie's choice and once again, protected against.

This is why offering suicide in prison as an alternative to life imprisonment is unethical and illegal.

Valid points yes. Still doesn't change the heart of a man who loves his own freedom. I'll choose death every time over a lifetime of an 8x10 cell.