What I think might be useful for debates and understanding one another:

[Darth]

Looking at some debates people are having, or have had, it seems to me there might be an issue with arguing at cross purposes and a general misunderstanding of positions, 2.2 billion christians (according to wikipedia), thats 2.2 billion forms of christianity, and we have no idea what type you're arguing for. I propose the following solution(s):

A) short questionnaire that people are asked to fill out before we start arguing. (This is what I have come up with so far, by no means is it complete/perfected, there is a distinct christian focus as it is, and there is stuff I've missed and perhaps unnecessary parts to it):

Please Bold/circle your y/n answers, bold/circle your answer to 'vs' questions, write a response at :______ sections (You can of course write responses wherever you feel that it's important/appropriate or if you feel a y/n answer or the given answers don't fit/do your beliefs justice)

Part 1:


Faith: ______ (if none, proceed to part 2)
Denomination: _______
Particular holy book used: ______

Beliefs about god/s:
Omnipotent: y/n
Omnipresent: y/n
Omniscient: y/n
Omnibenevolent: y/n


Trinity?: ________
Predestination?: _______
Universalism?: _______
Unforgivable sins y/n (if y, what do they include?): __________
Deeds vs faith
Faith as a prerequisite for heaven/paradise:
Any faith, only some faiths, only my faith, any faith or no faith ______________

When will the world end (roughly)?: ____________
Scriptural justification: ______________

Beliefs about satan:
Rules hell and/or in being punished in hell
Has power on earth: y/n, if y, how much?: ___________
Demonic possession? y/n
Working for the lord/a part of gods plan: _________

Beliefs about afterlife
Eternal? y/n
Nature of punishments: ____________
Nature of rewards: __________
Middle ground? (eg purgatory/limbo) ________________
Maximum capacity? __________________

Beliefs about holy books:
God's word vs gods inspired word
All still relevant y/n
if n, which parts are/aren't, and why? ___________
Inerrant in it's current form (in whole)? y/n
if no: are specific book/parts inerrant? y/n ________
if no: inerrant in it's original form? y/n
Chapters/books included/excluded ___________
Literal truth vs metaphor
Age of the universe:___________

Knowledge vs belief:
You believe, but is KNOWLEDGE that a god or gods exist possible? y/n
Is knowledge about this god's attributes possible/available? y/n

Evidence:
Do you have any evidence that a god exists, the bible is a true account of events.... y/n
Is this evidence personal or freely available for anybody to verify?
What is the evidence: _________________

Part 2
I define agnosticism as: ____________________
I define atheism as: __________________
I am an: _____________________
I define negative and possitive atheism as:__________________
I define anti-theism as: _____________________
I define dystheism/maltheism/misotheism as:______________________


Idea b) Bio's. Linked to in signatures perhaps, a second part in bio's for answering questions like the ones in the questionnaire, and really defining one's own belief/lack there of. I have a personal bio what I enjoy, hobbies... and an antitheistic, agnostic/gnostic atheist (depends on which god concept) bio (Not that I've filled my bio out, I keep meaning to...).

Idea c) Something I've had floating around in my mind for a while now, wouldn't it be great if there was a program/website that let first make a bio, and then highlight parts of the bible (would probably use the KJV [Whats the most popular by the way?]). So you'd read it and as you go highlight each segment (or groups of them) as any/all/some of the following:

Literal truth
Metaphor
Still relevant/no longer relevant (option to add justifications and link to other passages/sites...)
Particularly good examples of goodness (Cherry red colour)
Mistranslation (option to state how it SHOULD read)
Later addition, not by the original author (option: justification/evidence)
Read but no judgment (This one would be prompted at the end of each chapter)

Options for us lot as well:
Cherry red
(complimentary to red is a green yeah?) Sickly/radioactive green for particularly nasty segments
"there is evidence to the contrary" (with options to justify/link)

also options right at the start to tick a) complete bunk b)Literal truth and c) all still relevant.


And then at the end there are other features such as a tally % wise of the different options chosen, comparisons to others from a) your group, b) other groups, everyone...

Any advice on getting this third idea up 'n' running? I personally think it's a good idea, it promotes bible literacy in everyone and asks people to think about their beliefs.

[Minimalist]

You work for the Census Department, don't you?

[Darth]

What are you trying to say? =P

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

What are you trying to say? =P

Min is being polite.

I'm not polite: On first glance the idea seems annoyingly pedantic,and just a smidge impertinent. I would not fill out such a form.


I'm as clear as I can be in the way I express myself. However,I don't care all that much if some strangers on some internet forum (or in real life for that matter) 'understand me' or I them.


00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000


Allan Shore: "Denny,aren't you afraid you'll die without anyone having really known you?"

Denny Crane "Hell no! I don't want people to know me, I want them to know MY version!"

[Darth]

On first glance the idea seems annoyingly pedantic

Granted

and just a smidge impertinent. I would not fill out such a form.

Certainly not my intent, (well, had a bit of a laugh in the 3rd one, but we're talking about the 1st) would certainly want to fix that. What part in particular, or the concept of the questionnaire as a whole, or the way I've done it....?

[fr0d0]

I have to fill out forms. Must be a compulsive :S

I had a similar thought about the religious views thing... it would help for people to know exactly where you're coming from I thought.

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Filled it in because I must :

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Please Bold/circle your y/n answers, bold/circle your answer to 'vs' questions, write a response at :______ sections (You can of course write responses wherever you feel that it's important/appropriate or if you feel a y/n answer or the given answers don't fit/do your beliefs justice)

Part 1:


Faith: Xtian
Denomination: Non Denominational, Became a Christian through the Salvation Army tho', which is derived from Methodism.
Particular holy book used: NIV regarded as most accurate, but happy to refer to any other


Beliefs about god/s:
Omnipotent: y
Omnipresent: y
Omniscient: y
Omnibenevolent: y


Trinity?: y
Predestination?: y
Universalism?: n
Unforgivable sins: not really
Deeds vs faith: faith
Faith as a prerequisite for heaven/paradise: faith & God deciding

When will the world end (roughly)?: we can't know
Scriptural justification: Matt 25:13

Beliefs about satan:
Rules hell and/or in being punished in hell: y
Has power on earth: y/n, if y, how much?: y, as much power as it says in the bible.
Demonic possession? y
Working for the lord/a part of gods plan: n

Beliefs about afterlife
Eternal? y
Nature of punishments: separation from good, in this life too.
Nature of rewards: connection with good, in this life too
Middle ground? biblical end times
Maximum capacity? 100% ( all people)

Beliefs about holy books:
God's word vs gods inspired word: inspired
All still relevant y
if n, which parts are/aren't, and why? ___________
Inerrant in it's current form (in whole)? so far innerrant
if no: are specific book/parts inerrant? y/n ________
if no: inerrant in it's original form? y/n
Chapters/books included/excluded: none
Literal truth vs metaphor: as it's written
Age of the universe: see science

Knowledge vs belief:
You believe, but is KNOWLEDGE that a god or gods exist possible? y
Is knowledge about this god's attributes possible/available? y

Evidence:
Do you have any evidence that a god exists, the bible is a true account of events.... y
Is this evidence personal or freely available for anybody to verify? necessarily personal
What is the evidence: biblical and experiential

Part 2
I define agnosticism as: not knowing
I define atheism as: lack of belief in a god or gods
I am an:
I define negative and possitive atheism as:
I define anti-theism as:
I define dystheism/maltheism/misotheism as:

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[kılıç_mehmet]

It's actually a good questionnaire.

[Shell B]

Stue, that would extremely helpful with trolly a-holes. However, I agree with Pad. It would be impertinent to ask people to fill that out to post here. I don't think it is impertinent of you to try to come up with ideas to help, though. I just think, after these thousands of years, the matter is beyond help.

[fr0d0]

I thought he was asking for it before entering serious debate & not regular posting!? Although it'd be nice to know more about people's positions, and that seems a simple and straightforward one for theists. We could have it as a voluntary template for new members... suggested in the site intro somewhere?? The non theist one needs a little work tho'

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

What part in particular, or the concept of the questionnaire as a whole, or the way I've done it....?

I did not mean to suggest you were being intentionally impertinent.It's clear you want to help,and I appreciate the sentiment.

It's the concept;inappropriate when joining a forum,and really none of your business. Nor will it stop trolls,or Poes.This may come as a shock,but people tell untruths,especially when filling out forms.(hell,I do)

It might be useful to identify theists IF you were going to ban them on sight,which I'd love. (no offence Tacky or Rayaan, you two are rare exceptions here)