Was the star of Bethlehem a real astronomical event?

[leo-rcc]

Charles Dickens recorded that Christmas happened in his books.

[ElDinero]

You do not have to CONNECT this event with the beliefs of the magi, or gospel writers. You can just accept that the Bible has recorded an astronomical event that DID happen.

So what of it? So Bible authors saw a brighter than usual light in the sky and wrote it down. What point are you trying to prove? That not literally every single word in the Bible is a load of shit? Bravo, you really showed me.

[CoxRox]

I'm curious as to how you thought that an astronomical event which contradicts the bible's dating ( flawed though that dating may be ) would in some way "support" the bible?

Being born is not a multi-year process. Matthew has Herod the Great alive ( he died in 4 BC ) and supposedly orders all male children under 2 killed...this takes us back to 6 BC.

Regarding dating the year of Herod's death:

''But modern scholarship has deepened our understanding of Josephus' manuscripts. A recent study was made of the earliest manuscripts of Josephus' writings held by the British Library in London, and the American Library of Congress. It revealed a surprise that allows us to target our mathematical telescopes better than could Kepler (10). It turns out that a copying error was a primary cause of the confusion about the date of Herod's death. A printer typesetting the manuscript of Josephus' Antiquities messed up in the year 1544. Every single Josephus manuscript in these libraries dating from before 1544 supports the inference that Herod passed in 1 BC. Strong recent scholarship confirms that date (11). Knowing this, and since Herod died shortly after Christ's birth, our investigation turns to the skies of 3 and 2 BC. ''

http://www.bethlehemstar.net/stage/stage.htm

Luke notes that it happened when Publius Sulpicius Quirinius became governor of Syria and ordered a census of the newly formed Roman prefecture of Judaea in 6 AD. He then has people who live in what was, at that precise moment in time, a separate country climb on a donkey and travel to Judaea to register for a census which did not concern them in the least. Figure the latest date for a birth could have been 7 AD. We have a 12-13 year period when the gospels, which YOU not I claim are inerrant for the birth of the hero of the story happened. Introducing a 3d date would, if proven, merely invalidate the other two gospel accounts. After all, if they got that wrong why should anyone take anything else they say seriously?

I've been looking into these interesting points that you raise. Here's a snippet from one article I found:

'....Taking all of this together, we have at least three censuses in the area of Judea - one in 8 B.C., one starting around (italics mine) 2 B.C. and one in 6 A.D. The only point that is really in question, then, is whether Luke was mistaken in ascribing this census to the time when Quirinius was in the role of Syrian Governor. Since Quirinius wasn't governor of the Syrian province until after Archelaus was deposed, critics claim Luke misidentified the census as the smaller one, which happened some 8-10 years after Herod died. Either Luke is wrong on his dating of Jesus' birth or Matthew made up the story of Herod the Great and the killing of the infants. Is this an accurate objection?.......'' The article then goes on to discuss that objection.

http://www.comereason.org/bibl_cntr/con1...z1bVcbXYZ5

I'm going to email Larson regarding this. I'll continue to check it out.

[frankiej]

You can't spend your whole life linking articles... You will have to think for yourself at some point.

[ElDinero]

Linking exclusively to websites with a vested interest in proving the truth of the Bible, no less.

[CoxRox]

You'd soon be moaning if I didn't provide links to quotes. You can't win on here.

[ElDinero]

How about providing something that isn't completely useless in the first place, links or not.

[frankiej]

No, we want you to link evidence... Not some article written by retards.

[Cyberman]

I don't know which computer programme Nasa uses. Does it matter if it's Starry Night?

I don't care what software NASA uses. They could work it all out on their fingers for all the difference it makes to me. The only reason I was pressing you on the point is that you clearly thought it important enough to bring up in the first place. Now you've switched the points and sent the train of your argument into another tunnel, viz:

You do not have to CONNECT this event with the beliefs of the magi, or gospel writers. You can just accept that the Bible has recorded an astronomical event that DID happen.

I don't connect those things. I merely went through Larson's work (and I'm being astonishingly polite there) as you recommended and came back with my analysis. You came in with "What if science can show, that the 'star' that was a sign of the Messiah's birth, did exist?" which nailed your colours to the mast from the get-go. In case I'm being too abstruse, that means the question, coupled with your later statements, clearly indicated where your feelings on the matter lie; that is to say, that you are of the opinion that the gospel myths represent real history and you want to believe Larson because his preachings, at face value, appear to add some weight to that opinion. Now you seem to be trying to distance yourself from your initial stance. Please, make up your mind what you want to establish here. Miracle or mundane?

I've already told you of my own independent findings which you either didn't notice or chose to ignore. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, 'cos I'm a nice guy. You only get one though. My processor is tied up at the moment with another project but first chance I get I'll run another simulation and this time I'll take some visual records for you.

In the meantime I'll leave you with a line borrowed from the atheist pope, Matt Dillahunty: The Spiderman comics and movies are set in New York. We know that New York exists as a real place. Does that make Spiderman real?

---

P.S. Did anyone else see Larson's web address and think it said "bethlehamster"?

Oh. Just me, then.

[little_monkey]

So I write a novel taking place in the 1920's, and in that story I include such historical facts as Hitler being arrested in 1923, the big stock market crash of 1929... and bingo, my novel becomes a historical document and, according to some people (read: CoxRox), all my characters are real. Cool.