(July 25, 2015 at 10:39 am)bennyboy Wrote: And the combination of lack of evidence, lack of clarity, and biased speculation leads people to make miracles out of molehills.

Other than giving couple of exceptions based on chance, have you already shown how scientific facts get into Quran?

(July 25, 2015 at 10:39 am)bennyboy Wrote: No, they do not literally hold Air Drones in the sky. The laws of physics do that.

Physical laws are not a matter of chance in a similar way as the instructions to the drones are not a matter of chance.

(July 25, 2015 at 10:39 am)bennyboy Wrote: Harris wrote:
Without wings, wind, or skill no bird can fly. Ostrich is a bird but cannot fly.

Bennyboy wrote:
. . . so God?

“Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

AND THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM.”

Al Ikhlash (112)
-Verses 1 – 4-

(July 25, 2015 at 10:39 am)bennyboy Wrote: This is goofy talk. Here's your problem. . . you believe that God exists, and that the Quran is a miracle. You cannot demonstrate that God exists, and it is clear to any non-muslim that the Quran is not a miracle. Do you think that spouting on about man's desire to have wings changes either of these simple truths?

Have you already demonstrated with all proper references and evidences how scientific facts get into Quran?

(July 25, 2015 at 10:39 am)bennyboy Wrote: You are confusing "things that happen" with "purpose." That's like saying the purpose of the Earth is to make me go splat! if I jump off a building.

Nature provides certain rules to keep the order in the universe. To a certain extent, you may take them as laws of physics. Nature hurts anything that goes against those rules. To live a normal life you should follow those rules. Whether jumping off from tenth floor or keeping yourself busy in homosexual activities would only bring harm to your own being. However if you will follow those rules then that assures the safety of your normal life. However, in this entire scenario everything would still be a contingent being.

“It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).”
Yaa Siin (36)
-Verse 40-

“The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed;”
Ar Rahmaan (55)
-Verse 5-

(July 25, 2015 at 10:39 am)bennyboy Wrote: You state as brute fact things which are not facts. You argue that the universe is supported by God. . . and yet you have no evidence either that the universe is supported or that the God of the Quran is that support. This is the problem with believing in fairy tales-- it must necessarily substitute word salad for simple observation.

Take into consideration the following premises as an alternate to my previous response.

1. Nothing can create its own being.
2. Universe is a created being.
3. All created things are contingent beings.
4. Universe is a contingent being.
5. If Universe does not depend on God then whatever it depends upon is God.

(July 25, 2015 at 12:49 pm)robvalue Wrote: Here's a question for you Harris, one no apologist ever answers.

You apparently have an omnipotent God on your side of the debate. How come you can't convince us atheists of a single thing? Does that make you doubt the strength of your team?
Does he want you to fail?

Do I need a team to convey a fact that sunrises in the East and set in the West?

If you arrogantly reject this information by looking right into my eyes then do I need to worry about that?

My job is to manifest the truth in a conceivable way, which I have done by providing historical and scientific facts and by giving evidences and rational justifications. On the other side, you are doing nothing but proudly rejecting everything without giving proper references and without any sensible reasoning.

Since the start of this post did, any of you guys had ever shown how the scientific facts get into Quran or why there are millions of Hafiz in the world. The answer is no. What maximum you have done so far is made few guesstimates and conjectures and based on your irrational reasoning tried to hide the reality.

So you're saying that an atheist's power of denial is greater than god's ability to display its existence?

I'm approaching 40 now, and I've seen no hint of this supposedly obvious being. How hard is he really trying?

(July 26, 2015 at 3:33 am)robvalue Wrote: So you're saying that an atheist's power of denial is greater than god's ability to display its existence?

I think you have missed my point. With a lack of references and evidences, your rejection is no more than a yell of a stubborn little girl.

(July 26, 2015 at 3:33 am)robvalue Wrote: I'm approaching 40 now, and I've seen no hint of this supposedly obvious being. How hard is he really trying?

Is there anyone who has seen the Black Hole? No. So why everyone believe in the existence of Black Holes?

You may say you have proper evidences and SIGNS therefore, you believe that black holes exist.

I have given you sufficient SIGNS and evidences from Quran about the existence of God but then you are looking right in those SIGNS and cannot see them because you are adamant and reject everything that has in any sense a connection with God, without any reason.

It is funny that none of you guys can prove that Quran is a manmade scripture and yet you are not willing to accept this fact.

Quran is a Miracle of Miracles.

(July 26, 2015 at 5:08 am)Harris Wrote: [quote pid='1005449' dateline='1437895986']


I have given you sufficient SIGNS and evidences from Quran about the existence of God but then you are looking right in those SIGNS and cannot see them because you are adamant and reject everything that has in any sense a connection with God, without any reason.

No you haven't.

Quote:It is funny that none of you guys can prove that Quran is a manmade scripture and yet you are not willing to accept this fact.

Everything that has been written down is "man made" to say anything else is delusional at best.

Quote:Quran is a Miracle of Miracles.

[/quote]
The only amazing thing about the Quran is that people still take it seriously.

(July 26, 2015 at 5:08 am)Harris Wrote: I have given you sufficient SIGNS and evidences from Quran about the existence of God but then you are looking right in those SIGNS and cannot see them because you are adamant and reject everything that has in any sense a connection with God, without any reason.

You haven't given sufficient reasons for shit and I produce my own in copious quantities on a daily basis. Signs? I'm not looking for signs, I'm looking for god. I live in a city of over 8 million praying mother fuckers. The fact that there are 8 million people here means that 7.920 million aren't getting their prayers answered. Please tell god that I won't ask him for anything, just want him to pop in on his way out of town.

A stubborn little girl?

How's this for stubborn: fuck Allah, I wouldn't worship his evil ass even if I thought he was real. He's a piece of shit who deals in violence and fear. If he wants to come explain himself to me, then he is welcome. If he prefers to play peek-a-boo and let people continually speak for him, then too bad. If he's happy to have people kill in his name, then fuck him even harder with a red hot poker.

You see everything as signs because you already have your conclusion and just interpret things in a way that reaffirm your beliefs. I see a world that behaves exactly how I would expect with no one but us in charge. Either we live in different worlds, or one of us is severely misinterpreting everything.

If there is a god, he is not a comic book villain. It's really insulting to him actually. He's bound to love atheists more because we haven't painted him as a psychopathic toddler on roid rage. Instead we're comfortable saying such a thing is beyond our ability to examine, if it does exist.

Quote:In comparison to you, I am confident in stating that up until fourteenth century no one has the knowledge about numbness.

If you are an honest person then in place of playing with words just bring one solid statement of some renowned person who lived in seventh century or prior.

Numbness is a feeling that can occur when someone receives 3rd and 4th degree burns.  It's a feeling brought on by a physical injury, it's not like a scientific discovery.
You saying people discovered numbness caused by burns in the 14th century is like saying the blister was discovered in the 2nd century BC because that's when someone first wrote about it.
I assume ancient people knew that being hit in the groin with a rock hurts, that they knew that scabs cause skin to go numb, they knew fire caused hair to singe, I might not be able to google search any of these things and find them but I assume ancient people knew of them because they're feelings related to what an ancient person would almost certainly have experienced.
I have absolutely no historical proof whatsoever that ancient man knew scabs caused skin to go numb, but it's completely logical for me to assume they did know since they would have experienced scabbed skin, they would have experienced 4th degree burns.
It's the same principle.
You're citing as proof that NO ONE in ancient times knew of numbness caused by burns by telling me 6 ancient philosophers never wrote about it.

By your logic I can prove no one in ancient times knew that being hit by a piece of wood in the groin hurts unless you can provide me an ancient historical statement about being hit by a piece of wood in the groin, find me one statement.
And I can prove no one in ancient times knew that scabs are numb, unless you can provide one ancient source.

I'm getting a feeling of numbness in my brain.

[quote pid='1004584' dateline='1437816303']

Quote:

Quote:I know exactly what I am writing nevertheless, you are striving hard to distort the meanings of the facts that I am showing to you. Truth would never change by merely saying “sun rises in the west.”

Let me recap all what I have written so far:

1. Skin is the largest organ that can sense heat and fire
2. Skin protects all internal organs including organs that can sense heat.
3. Oral intake of hot stuff may affect these heat sensitive organs.

For Skin:
“Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.”
An Nisaa (4)
-Verse 56-

For internal organs:
“Is that the (Paradise) better entertainment or the Tree of Zaqqum?
For We have truly made it (as) a trial for the wrong-doers.
For it is a tree that springs out of the bottom of Hell-Fire:
The shoots of its fruit-stalks are like the heads of devils:
Truly they will eat thereof and fill their bellies therewith.
Then on top of that they will be given a mixture made of boiling water.”
Ash-Shaaffat (37)
-Verse 63 – 67-

For internal organs:
“Verily the tree of Zaqqum
Will be the food of the Sinful,-
Like molten brass; it will boil in their insides.
Like the boiling of scalding water.”
Ad Dukhaan (44)
-Verses 43 – 46

[/quote]

I'm not distorting anything, you said that

Quote:FRESH SKIN is a must condition to feel the burning

Which contradicts

Quote:internal organs too which are sensitive to heat.

According to you the verse in the quran means that skin is needed to feel the pain of burning, that is why it is miraculous.  Then I tell you that information is wrong because other organs can feel heat and you proclaim another miracle in another verse?

If someone is being roasted alive and their skin burns away and then the heat reaches their internal organs they will still feel pain, so god does not need to replace their skin in order for them to still feel the pain of burning.

Fresh skin is not a must condition in order to feel burning, you said so yourself.

(July 26, 2015 at 5:29 am)Cato Wrote: You haven't given sufficient reasons for shit and I produce my own in copious quantities on a daily basis. Signs? I'm not looking for signs, I'm looking for god. I live in a city of over 8 million praying mother fuckers. The fact that there are 8 million people here means that 7.920 million aren't getting their prayers answered. Please tell god that I won't ask him for anything, just want him to pop in on his way out of town.

I am not forcing you to pray with all those eight million people. Simply search the internet, search the libraries, or consult with scholars and try to find only one evidence that clearly shows that some man or a group of people had put those scientific facts in Quran. If you fail to find even one evidence then at least agree that Quran is not the work of man.

(July 26, 2015 at 5:29 am)robvalue Wrote: How's this for stubborn: fuck Allah, I wouldn't worship his evil ass even if I thought he was real. He's a piece of shit who deals in violence and fear. If he wants to come explain himself to me, then he is welcome. If he prefers to play peek-a-boo and let people continually speak for him, then too bad. If he's happy to have people kill in his name, then fuck him even harder with a red hot poker.

You see everything as signs because you already have your conclusion and just interpret things in a way that reaffirm your beliefs. I see a world that behaves exactly how I would expect with no one but us in charge. Either we live in different worlds, or one of us is severely misinterpreting everything.

If there is a god, he is not a comic book villain. It's really insulting to him actually. He's bound to love atheists more because we haven't painted him as a psychopathic toddler on roid rage. Instead we're comfortable saying such a thing is beyond our ability to examine, if it does exist.

See! You are shrieking even louder and that is an evident proof that you are helpless and cannot prove that people had put those scientific facts in Quran.

I had given only nine of them however; there are plenty of amazing things in Quran, which I have not yet touched.