The idea of hell which is in Christianity and Islam are based on two theological and philosophical ideas:

1. Immortality of the soul.
The idea that the soul is immortal, is found no where in the OT. Genesis 2:7 explains how a Jew believed a soul was; LIVING. It was body + breath of life = soul.
However, during the hellenistic period the idea of the soul being immortal became very popular. Christians soon attempted to make Christianity compatable with great pagan philosophers. If you have ever read any of Plato's work, the soul being immortal is a fact, no questions asked. So Christians had to adapt, some apologists in the 2nd century are seen to accept the notion that immortality of the soul is a fact. If the soul is immortal, nothing can destory it, not even God. So a very much pagan theory of the afterlife became developed; Heaven and hell. Early Christians were not looking forward to heaven, they were looking forward to the second coming and a new Earth. So concepts of heaven and hell became developed; that one's soul either went to heaven or hell, for all eternity.

2. Doctrine of original sin.
I talk to theists who claim they do not believe in the doctrine of original sin, but they still believe everyone needs saving, they just reject the idea that babies sin and that they are going to hell. I personally believe when Jesus died on the cross, salvation came to everyone. You dont accept salvation, its a default (Yes you can lose it though).
Anyway Saint Augustine, who was by far one of the greatest theists, has greatly affected how ALL Christians view salvation; that people need saving. The world did need saving, that is what Jesus died on the cross. Due to docrtine of original sin, and other forms of it, anyone who does not accept Christ is going to hell (Although the Bible NEVER says that). To think that immoral Christians would make heaven before Godly Buddhists and Atheists, I have never really understood.


So that is why Christians and Muslims believe in hell. Why do I include Islam? Islam is just a mix of different Christian groups. Thus, they have many similar beliefs (Second coming, Anti Christ, Halal, one God etc).
Of course the evolution of the doctrine of hell is much more complicated than that, but that is what it pretty much boils down to.

I have an objection with the first premise:

(October 24, 2010 at 6:59 am)solja247 Wrote: So Christians had to adapt, some apologists in the 2nd century are seen to accept the notion that immortality of the soul is a fact. If the soul is immortal, nothing can destory it, not even God.

If the soul is indestructible (and therefore immortal) how can it feel pain in Hell?

(October 24, 2010 at 7:44 am)Welsh cake Wrote: I have an objection with the first premise:

(October 24, 2010 at 6:59 am)solja247 Wrote: So Christians had to adapt, some apologists in the 2nd century are seen to accept the notion that immortality of the soul is a fact. If the soul is immortal, nothing can destory it, not even God.

If the soul is indestructible (and therefore immortal) how can it feel pain in Hell?

The New Testament does talk about the resurrection of both the righteous and wicked dead at Judgement day. Although apart from sects such as the Seventh Day Adventists also preach that before Judgement day, souls will be given both provisional rewards and judgements depending on if they are wicked or righteous. Your question is apt for at least the 'provisional' stage before the day of judgement.

BTW: I am a atheist who denies in an afterlife, however I know a bit about Christian (especially Evangelical) theology.

Quote:The New Testament does talk about the resurrection of both the righteous and wicked dead at Judgement day. Although apart from sects such as the Seventh Day Adventists also preach that before Judgement day, souls will be given both provisional rewards and judgements depending on if they are wicked or righteous. Your question is apt for at least the 'provisional' stage before the day of judgement.

I will give you a full answer tomorrow but no.
a) Adventism is not a sect
b) Many people have believed in soul sleep
c) The ressurection of the righteous is throughout the whole NT.
d) More and more scholars are believing in the resurrection. A great commentary called, 'The New Persepctive on Paul.' Is changing how we understand the NT and getting rid of out theological baggage.

Quote:If the soul is indestructible (and therefore immortal) how can it feel pain in Hell?

I have never believed in eternal hell, so I cant really say how one does feel pain in hell.

One would think that after a while the "torments of hell" would be so much background noise.

You would get bored.

Though I'm still confused as to why regardless of the sin the punishment is the same.

Like getting the death penalty for jaywalking.

And what about masochists? wouldn't it be like a reward for them?

How do you know hell exists? How do you know souls exist?

(October 24, 2010 at 7:44 am)Welsh cake Wrote: If the soul is indestructible (and therefore immortal) how can it feel pain in Hell?

Immortality means you cannot die. Indestructibility means you can't be destroyed. Neither of these attributes have anything to do with pain, nor do they negate your ability to feel it.

(October 24, 2010 at 9:12 am)Tiberius Wrote: Immortality means you cannot die. Indestructibility means you can't be destroyed. Neither of these attributes have anything to do with pain, nor do they negate your ability to feel it.

That's a logical contradiction. If we accept the first premise that souls exist and they're only just immortal, then yes, it could still experience pain, but does not in anyway account for Plato's argument that it is also indestructible i.e. the opposite of destructible - something that cannot be destroyed or damaged.

No external or internal stimulus can feasibly damage it by that definition. Since pain is simply the unpleasant emotional experience associated with actual damage, if a soul's indestructible then it can't be harmed in any possible way, therefore is insensitive to pain.

(October 24, 2010 at 10:06 am)Welsh cake Wrote:

(October 24, 2010 at 9:12 am)Tiberius Wrote: Immortality means you cannot die. Indestructibility means you can't be destroyed. Neither of these attributes have anything to do with pain, nor do they negate your ability to feel it.

That's a logical contradiction. If we accept the first premise that souls exist and they're only just immortal, then yes, it could still experience pain, but does not in anyway account for Plato's argument that it is also indestructible i.e. the opposite of destructible - something that cannot be destroyed or damaged.

No external or internal stimulus can feasibly damage it by that definition. Since pain is simply the unpleasant emotional experience associated with actual damage, if a soul's indestructible then it can't be harmed in any possible way, therefore is insensitive to pain.

No, that's not. When the mechanism for pain in an immortal, immaterial soul has not been outlined, there can be no reason to insist pain must correlate to degrees of damage.

Pain is induced in normal human beings by signals sent to the brain using the nervous system. These signals are usually caused by some kind of harm / damage to the person (i.e. a cut), but you can manipulate the nerves to send the signals even if no harm or damage is done to the body.

So pain is simply a feeling, and there isn't anything contradictory about an indestructible or immortal being feeling pain, as long as that pain wasn't caused by some form of harm / damage to the being.