In addition to the "my cell was never locked" bit, posted above, I feel more free because I can formulate my own views with no prejudice (not bigotry, pre-judgment) against which I must first compare them. In my personal case, it was when I realized my church was outright lying to me about what science has discovered that I realized some of the other things I had taken for granted as true might not actually be true. Once I began to investigate them--for example, the evolutionary basis and actual nature of human sexual development--I found that the Bronze Age tribal sheepherder views about how people "should" be were mostly empty concepts that only applied to that time and culture, and/or outright wrong.
For me it was the freedom to experience true moral agency - to take guilt as my own, rather than something I owed to someone else. I alone am responsible for my own moral choices, and their ramifications among my fellow human beings. Turns out, we evolved as a tribal (social) species which gave us the gift (and curse) of empathy, and so I feel good when I do good, and bad when I do bad. I benefit from helping others; religions have told us the lie that we can only get that feeling from a deity, and it is a lie from which I have freed myself. Indeed, I can be better to others now, because to me there are no restrictions on that-- I don't have to care if they're gay, or if they tithe, or to whom they pray (or don't), et cetera, only whether they harm others.
King and C_L, you two may belong to sub-sects that encourage acceptance and tolerance (as, to be fair, Jesus himself instructed you to do) even in the presence of "sinners", but you're lying to yourselves if you think that's the norm, or even close to the norm, among the faithful. It's why we like you both so much, even though we disagree on many subjects. Most Christians (and lots of other types of Believer) seem constitutionally incapable of treating atheists as human beings. You do.
Meanwhile, we atheists who have little in common other than worshiping no gods of any kind, gather here on this board and elsewhere because we're constantly forced into a position of defending ourselves against the various attacks on our character, our place in society, and often, our rights. If the bulk of Christianity was made up of people like you, we'd have no problems of this sort, and I doubt there'd be such a board as this one. We'd all be on a knitting forum, or a video game forum, or in my case a motorcyclists' forum, instead of coming here to compare notes and share stories.
Think about it-- how often are you, as Christians, forced to gather for the purpose of defending yourself against Hindus or Buddhists? I'm sure that in other countries, where they form a majority, there are such boards, due to the tendencies of religions to do what I describe above. And yes, I'll acknowledge that where other semi-religious doctrines which are atheistic in nature, such as Marxist/Leninist/Maoist communism, become dominant in a society, they take on the "sins" of the religious in oppressing people in the Out Groups. (It may be a tendency of humanity, instinctively.) But we, having been part of the group that is almost universally "free punching bags" for the religious that dominate most societies, we tend to defend the religious liberty of others, unless they are engaged in that cultural dominance and discrimination. That's why we're often accused of defending ISIS (or whomever), when we say that (for instance) Muslim-Americans and Muslim immigrants should not be discriminated against for what ISIS does... it's why the entire (atheistic, really) "religion" of Satanism was invented, and why we satirize religious dogma's various assertions via the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
It's not about following rules or objecting to rules, as we're often accused of doing. They're thinking of anarchists, I suppose, but even they have personal codes to which they adhere; they simply object to governmental control of individual lives. We are free of artificial rules invented by Bronze Age tribal sheepherders' priests to govern that particular society because we recognize them as just that (and so do you; it's why you universally say slavery is bad, even though Leviticus specifically spells out that it's okay to own people and will them to your children as a permanent inheritance). What we're free of is the superstition of ancient peoples, what Sagan calls the "Demon-Haunted World".
For me it was the freedom to experience true moral agency - to take guilt as my own, rather than something I owed to someone else. I alone am responsible for my own moral choices, and their ramifications among my fellow human beings. Turns out, we evolved as a tribal (social) species which gave us the gift (and curse) of empathy, and so I feel good when I do good, and bad when I do bad. I benefit from helping others; religions have told us the lie that we can only get that feeling from a deity, and it is a lie from which I have freed myself. Indeed, I can be better to others now, because to me there are no restrictions on that-- I don't have to care if they're gay, or if they tithe, or to whom they pray (or don't), et cetera, only whether they harm others.
King and C_L, you two may belong to sub-sects that encourage acceptance and tolerance (as, to be fair, Jesus himself instructed you to do) even in the presence of "sinners", but you're lying to yourselves if you think that's the norm, or even close to the norm, among the faithful. It's why we like you both so much, even though we disagree on many subjects. Most Christians (and lots of other types of Believer) seem constitutionally incapable of treating atheists as human beings. You do.
Meanwhile, we atheists who have little in common other than worshiping no gods of any kind, gather here on this board and elsewhere because we're constantly forced into a position of defending ourselves against the various attacks on our character, our place in society, and often, our rights. If the bulk of Christianity was made up of people like you, we'd have no problems of this sort, and I doubt there'd be such a board as this one. We'd all be on a knitting forum, or a video game forum, or in my case a motorcyclists' forum, instead of coming here to compare notes and share stories.
Think about it-- how often are you, as Christians, forced to gather for the purpose of defending yourself against Hindus or Buddhists? I'm sure that in other countries, where they form a majority, there are such boards, due to the tendencies of religions to do what I describe above. And yes, I'll acknowledge that where other semi-religious doctrines which are atheistic in nature, such as Marxist/Leninist/Maoist communism, become dominant in a society, they take on the "sins" of the religious in oppressing people in the Out Groups. (It may be a tendency of humanity, instinctively.) But we, having been part of the group that is almost universally "free punching bags" for the religious that dominate most societies, we tend to defend the religious liberty of others, unless they are engaged in that cultural dominance and discrimination. That's why we're often accused of defending ISIS (or whomever), when we say that (for instance) Muslim-Americans and Muslim immigrants should not be discriminated against for what ISIS does... it's why the entire (atheistic, really) "religion" of Satanism was invented, and why we satirize religious dogma's various assertions via the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
It's not about following rules or objecting to rules, as we're often accused of doing. They're thinking of anarchists, I suppose, but even they have personal codes to which they adhere; they simply object to governmental control of individual lives. We are free of artificial rules invented by Bronze Age tribal sheepherders' priests to govern that particular society because we recognize them as just that (and so do you; it's why you universally say slavery is bad, even though Leviticus specifically spells out that it's okay to own people and will them to your children as a permanent inheritance). What we're free of is the superstition of ancient peoples, what Sagan calls the "Demon-Haunted World".
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
![[Image: rySLj1k.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i.imgur.com%2FrySLj1k.png)
