(January 1, 2016 at 6:14 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote:

(January 1, 2016 at 5:33 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: So the God character was in the dark for who knows how many eons.  Then he got the idea that he should alter the darkness and create light.  That worked out OK so then he continued to make stuff that had never existed when he was in the darkness.  Billions of our years passed and then he got the bright idea to create man, but only on one microscopic planet in the whole universe. 

Man became a problem so he killed all life except for 8 humans and the animals they had with them on a wooden boat.  Then he decided to save man's souls from the lake of fire (which he created) and tasked one  very small group of Middle Eastern goat herders identified by mutilated penises on a speck of dirt on the microscopic planet to tell everyone what a great guy he is.  He even promised that people could become zombies if they believe in him and live in a gaudy bejeweled golden cube on a waterless planet without any darkness for eternity.  

Yep, for sure.

Yeah.... That's not what I believe. Good job twisting things together in such a way though. That would have been difficult for even me.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

He isn't twisting it he is calling it like he is seeing it. The only real reason why christianity is even still a thing.
I'll even expand on it. Why is it that only certain people actual met god and why not all of his followers whats up with that.
Because god only goes to i don't know 1 person at a time or some shit. And all of the bible is just made up and hearsay.
Oh so if i don't believe in god ill go to hell but i keep my free will which seems better than heaven. So in heaven i have to give up
my individuality, my free will, just to be unified with spiritual kim jong un. I would rather live in communism i keep my free will
i just have to make sure i don't piss wrong people. Where as in heaven you can't do jack shit but pray worship etc. And you know what the 
funny part is it's all  made up.

(January 1, 2016 at 5:05 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote:

(January 1, 2016 at 4:58 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Aside from 'long suffering' (which an omnipotent, omniscient being wouldn't be), you just described a creature that has no need or want to create anything.

No I just listed a few adjectives describing God. In no way do I limit God to those descriptors solely.

Also just because God doesn't need us didn't m an he didn't or wouldn't create us. Are you using human rationale to justify your opinion of something you ent even believe in?

Impressive(not really)

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

By giving god traits, you are limiting it because that's how language works. If it's innately benevolent, then it cannot be malevolent. Descriptions create definitions, which remove options.

Moreover, the traits you listed mean something. A self-subsisting, all-encompassing, omnipotent, omniscient creature simply wouldn't create anything intentionally. Willful creation implies a want or need. They may be instinctual, but they are the manifestation of deficiency. The creature you described (because, again, words have meaning) would have no deficiencies. It wouldn't be lonely (self-subsisting) or curious (omniscient). It would have no reason to propagate (pick one from your list).

Your stated vision of your creator god is self-contradictory. Intentional creation implies want or need, which implies an imperfect, necessarily limited being. And if our creation wasn't intentional, then why should we care about it, let alone worship it?

And, please, let's do better than a weak appeal to ignorance as a reply, hmm? It's not illogical for one to critique another's assertion. That critique doesn't imply belief or disbelief, and is not incongruent with either. Furthermore, there's no reason to believe human rationale is somehow not up to the task of that criticism when human rationale is (poorly, IMO) used by billions of theists across the globe as a means to come to and defend their belief in their god. You don't have the monopoly on thinking just because I don't agree with you.

(October 8, 2015 at 1:50 am)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 1:46 am)robvalue Wrote: The Flying Spaghetti Monster loves you and wants you to live pastally ever after. But his arch nemesis, himself in a cheap mask, wants to spoil all that and roast your ears in pasta sauce.

The FSM will save you from that fate he so evilly has planned for you. No wait, that his nemesis has planned for you. All you have to do is eat nothing but pasta for the rest of your life, for some reason. And stuck it up your butt on Sundays. If you don't do that, you are choosing to have your ears roasted. And your arms exploded. And a bunch of other stuff, read the small print.

But it's totally your choice to either obey me or suffer. I mean, him. Obey the FSM. Not me.

that's a more encouraging story than us coming from a rock tbh

Dissing genesis, daniel? For shame.

For reference, "the dust of the ground" is essentially worn down and degraded rock.

(January 2, 2016 at 3:37 am)KevinM1 Wrote:

(January 1, 2016 at 5:05 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: No I just listed a few adjectives describing God. In no way do I limit God to those descriptors solely.

Also just because God doesn't need us didn't m an he didn't or wouldn't create us. Are you using human rationale to justify your opinion of something you ent even believe in?

Impressive(not really)

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

By giving god traits, you are limiting it because that's how language works. If it's innately benevolent, then it cannot be malevolent. Descriptions create definitions, which remove options.

Moreover, the traits you listed mean something. A self-subsisting, all-encompassing, omnipotent, omniscient creature simply wouldn't create anything intentionally. Willful creation implies a want or need. They may be instinctual, but they are the manifestation of deficiency. The creature you described (because, again, words have meaning) would have no deficiencies. It wouldn't be lonely (self-subsisting) or curious (omniscient). It would have no reason to propagate (pick one from your list).

Your stated vision of your creator god is self-contradictory. Intentional creation implies want or need, which implies an imperfect, necessarily limited being. And if our creation wasn't intentional, then why should we care about it, let alone worship it?

And, please, let's do better than a weak appeal to ignorance as a reply, hmm? It's not illogical for one to critique another's assertion. That critique doesn't imply belief or disbelief, and is not incongruent with either. Furthermore, there's no reason to believe human rationale is somehow not up to the task of that criticism when human rationale is (poorly, IMO) used by billions of theists across the globe as a means to come to and defend their belief in their god. You don't have the monopoly on thinking just because I don't agree with you.

Just because God knows all doesn't mean it wouldn't create or form anything. Your flaw is in assuming God wouldn't create or form anything because, to you, somethings that knows everything and needs nothing wouldn't create anything. That a they flaw of your rationale. Don't bring others into the to back up your own flawed views. Theists have mothballs g to do with this conversation. You did happen to make one decent point and that is that God is not malevolent.

And yes, it can be long suffering for our sake. How could it not be? Unlike the rest of existence, most men don't follow the direction put forth by GOD and make their own path. God is long suffering for our sake because it is constantly giving us new opportunities based on our actions. So explain, if yo will, how a thing that is all powerful, and all knowing can't also be compassionate?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I'm so tired of this phone I can throw it through the wall.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

(January 2, 2016 at 10:06 am)popsthebuilder Wrote:

(January 2, 2016 at 3:37 am)KevinM1 Wrote: By giving god traits, you are limiting it because that's how language works.  If it's innately benevolent, then it cannot be malevolent.  Descriptions create definitions, which remove options.

Moreover, the traits you listed mean something.  A self-subsisting, all-encompassing, omnipotent, omniscient creature simply wouldn't create anything intentionally.  Willful creation implies a want or need.  They may be instinctual, but they are the manifestation of deficiency.  The creature you described (because, again, words have meaning) would have no deficiencies.   It wouldn't be lonely (self-subsisting) or curious (omniscient).  It would have no reason to propagate (pick one from your list).

Your stated vision of your creator god is self-contradictory.  Intentional creation implies want or need, which implies an imperfect, necessarily limited being.  And if our creation wasn't intentional, then why should we care about it, let alone worship it?

And, please, let's do better than a weak appeal to ignorance as a reply, hmm?  It's not illogical for one to critique another's assertion.  That critique doesn't imply belief or disbelief, and is not incongruent with either.   Furthermore, there's no reason to believe human rationale is somehow not up to the task of that criticism when human rationale is (poorly, IMO) used by billions of theists across the globe as a means to come to and defend their belief in their god.  You don't have the monopoly on thinking just because I don't agree with you.

Just because God knows all doesn't mean it wouldn't create or form anything. Your flaw is in assuming God wouldn't create or form anything because, to you, somethings that knows everything and needs nothing wouldn't create anything. That a they flaw of your rationale. Don't bring others into the to back up your own flawed views. Theists have mothballs g to do with this conversation. You did happen to make one decent point and that is that God is not malevolent.

And yes, it can be long suffering for our sake. How could it not be? Unlike the rest of existence, most men don't follow the direction put forth by GOD and make their own path. God is long suffering for our sake because it is constantly giving us new opportunities based on our actions. So explain, if yo will, how a thing that is all powerful, and all knowing can't also be compassionate?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Free will is a illusion if god is all knowing. That being said giving god powers limits your own god. If you start giving your god powers which is not mine
i have nothing to do with it.  Put it this way you set up so many paradoxes you say god is all knowing that would mean he knowingly created imperfect creations i.e. humans knowing we would fail.

(January 2, 2016 at 11:07 am)dyresand Wrote:

(January 2, 2016 at 10:06 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: Just because God knows all doesn't mean it wouldn't create or form anything. Your flaw is in assuming God wouldn't create or form anything because, to you, somethings that knows everything and needs nothing wouldn't create anything. That a they flaw of your rationale. Don't bring others into the to back up your own flawed views. Theists have mothballs g to do with this conversation. You did happen to make one decent point and that is that God is not malevolent.

And yes, it can be long suffering for our sake. How could it not be? Unlike the rest of existence, most men don't follow the direction put forth by GOD and make their own path. God is long suffering for our sake because it is constantly giving us new opportunities based on our actions. So explain, if yo will, how a thing that is all powerful, and all knowing can't also be compassionate?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Free will is a illusion if god is all knowing. That being said giving god powers limits your own god. If you start giving your god which is not mine
i have nothing to do with it.  Put it this way you set up so many paradoxes you say god is all knowing that would mean he knowingly created imperfect creations i.e. humans knowing we would fail.

Failure is only temporary and is needed to learn from mistakes, kinda like history.

All is predestined, and we also have free will which comes with responsibility and potential. Depending n how you look at it free will can be seen as a curse or a gift. God didn't set us up to fail. He set us up that we might, by his will, and our faith, eventually come together for our sake and the sake and prosperity of all.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

(January 2, 2016 at 11:19 am)popsthebuilder Wrote:

(January 2, 2016 at 11:07 am)dyresand Wrote: Free will is a illusion if god is all knowing. That being said giving god powers limits your own god. If you start giving your god which is not mine
i have nothing to do with it.  Put it this way you set up so many paradoxes you say god is all knowing that would mean he knowingly created imperfect creations i.e. humans knowing we would fail.

Failure is only temporary and is needed to learn from mistakes, kinda like history.

All is predestined, and we also have free will which comes with responsibility and potential. Depending n how you look at it free will can be seen as a curse or a gift. God didn't set us up to fail. He set us up that we might, by his will, and our faith, eventually come together for our sake and the sake and prosperity of all.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Which is the kinder way of saying i fucked up on purpose and misery and suffering is my gift to you.

(January 2, 2016 at 11:27 am)dyresand Wrote:

(January 2, 2016 at 11:19 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: Failure is only temporary and is needed to learn from mistakes, kinda like history.

All is predestined, and we also have free will which comes with responsibility and potential. Depending n how you look at it free will can be seen as a curse or a gift. God didn't set us up to fail. He set us up that we might, by his will, and our faith, eventually come together for our sake and the sake and prosperity of all.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Which is the kinder way of saying i fucked up on purpose and misery and suffering is my gift to you.

I don't follow. The purpose of life is to live. Suffering is by the hand of man. God doesn't wish for any of us to suffer. Suffering is negated by selflessness and the want to do good for other life for its benefit, not our own.

I really missed what you were trying to say I think. Could you word it differently please?

Thanks

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

(January 2, 2016 at 11:19 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: Failure is only temporary and is needed to learn from mistakes, kinda like history.

All is predestined, and we also have free will which comes with responsibility and potential. Depending n how you look at it free will can be seen as a curse or a gift. God didn't set us up to fail. He set us up that we might, by his will, and our faith, eventually come together for our sake and the sake and prosperity of all.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

If all is predestined then free will is impossible: I can't deviate from a predestined path and if I can, then clearly it wasn't predestined. The two concepts are mutually exclusive.