When I was about 15, I liked a girl that was a daughter to a deacon at Trinity Baptist church and her dad ran off with the church secretary, another deacon's wife and fled on a hot weekend love affair to Myrtle Beach, SC for several days just on the surprise drop of a hat it appeared. Both families were stunned and horrified. While they were still gone I had a memorable long phone conversation with the girl in which we discussed why and how her father who had taught her about god and who had been such a "godly" figure in her life could destroy their family and their church family just for a sexual tryst with the church secretary. She wasn't questioning her faith surprisingly, she was questioning her father. I remember in this conversation correcting her strongly when she said that their morals came from the bible and god even though I wasn't an atheist at the time. I told her that no, her morals were taught to her by her parents as she was growing up. She was encouraged to play nice with the other kids and punished by them when she didn't. Her parents taught her the social rules of the playground and of life. I had stunned myself with that revelation. I then realized that in every church setting I had ever been in they had repeatedly lied and claimed that everyone got their morals from the bible. The silliness of people saying that they got their morals from a book they only read snippets from struck me. Why would a falsehood pervade the churches so easily? Why out of hundreds of people, did I never hear any counter to this obvious falsehood? That was another of the gongs that struck the death knell of my belief in god.

(January 3, 2016 at 9:51 am)robvalue Wrote: There's a big difference between saying there might be a supernatural realm, and saying that not only is there one but you know things about it.

I think when you can't find a logical secular explanation for what you're feeling, feeling that something is supernatural that's happened, isn't such a big leap. Maybe everyone's threshold for describing these things is different, that could be, too. I could also easily say...''I don't know,'' as to what happened, if I can't find a secular explanation for it. So, there's that too. There's nothing wrong with saying ''I don't know,'' and it's also okay to say ''That seemed out of the ordinary, I wonder if that was Divine intervention?'' None of us know with certainty things that relate outside of our senses...it is hard to imagine that something actually might exist outside of our ability to comprehend it.

(January 3, 2016 at 8:42 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(January 2, 2016 at 2:23 am)Deidre32 Wrote: Is it all that wild to think there could be a supernatural force behind the universe? Not that wild, to me. lol

What is he supernatural and how does it work? All you seem to be doing is replacing rational thought with preferring stories. Ghost stories, and tales about zombies are good, but you should never confuse them with stuff that actually happens.

I happen to agree that Bible stories, etc aren't enough, and they weren't for me before I deconverted. But, I can only express that this was my own experience, and subsequent experiences...so, seemed quite real to me. But, otherwise, I hear you.

(December 30, 2015 at 10:17 am)Deidre32 Wrote: If you were ever a theist/believer, what led you to no longer believe? Not looking to preach, that’s not my thing and it’s against rules anyway, but just curious. I remember my own journey over the past few years with it all, and just thought it’d be interesting to hear your ‘stories’ if you were once believers before identifying as an atheist. 

I was initially seeking to be closer to God, buried my nose in the bible, the bible alone did all the work in crushing my faith in Christianity. After that I searched for any real evidence of a God and found nothing.

(January 3, 2016 at 9:53 am)excitedpenguin Wrote:

(January 3, 2016 at 9:51 am)robvalue Wrote: There's a big difference between saying there might be a supernatural real, and saying that not only is there one but you know things about it.

Yeah, not really. Both are impossible by definition.

And are definitions reliably true?

(January 3, 2016 at 3:54 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(January 3, 2016 at 9:53 am)excitedpenguin Wrote: Yeah, not really. Both are impossible by definition.

And are definitions reliably true?

Is truth itself reliably existent?

Many things.

The reality of human suffering, the contradictions in the bible, the unreasonable nature of many of the teachings, and finally just how big and unexplored the earth and universe really are.

(January 3, 2016 at 4:49 pm)TrueChristian Wrote: Many things.

The reality of human suffering, the contradictions in the bible, the unreasonable nature of many of the teachings, and finally just how big and unexplored the earth and universe really are.

Ah, so your username is sarcasm. Eye sea. 

(January 3, 2016 at 3:24 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:

(January 3, 2016 at 9:51 am)robvalue Wrote: There's a big difference between saying there might be a supernatural realm, and saying that not only is there one but you know things about it.

I think when you can't find a logical secular explanation for what you're feeling, feeling that something is supernatural that's happened, isn't such a big leap. Maybe everyone's threshold for describing these things is different, that could be, too. I could also easily say...''I don't know,'' as to what happened, if I can't find a secular explanation for it. So, there's that too. There's nothing wrong with saying ''I don't know,'' and it's also okay to say ''That seemed out of the ordinary, I wonder if that was Divine intervention?'' None of us know with certainty things that relate outside of our senses...it is hard to imagine that something actually might exist outside of our ability to comprehend it.

The only logical and rational explanation for something you don't know is "I don't know".  It is never "I don't know, but that doesn't make me feel good so I'll just make up some nonsense that gives me a warm feeling inside and decide it has to be true."

(January 3, 2016 at 3:54 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(January 3, 2016 at 9:53 am)excitedpenguin Wrote: Yeah, not really. Both are impossible by definition.

And are definitions reliably true?

In this case they certainly are, obviously. Unless you're going to make the word natural lose all of its meaning.