(January 16, 2016 at 8:41 am)Irrational Wrote:

(January 16, 2016 at 8:30 am)Sheed1980 Wrote: Again He has the ability to do as He pleases. However if He created someone/something to be more powerful than Him, then He would be at a lower standard than His creation. So He WOULDNT do something that ridiculous because He has told mankind He is The Supreme Being. By saying this that means no one nor nothing can ever be more powerful or in higher standards than He (Allah). And since He said this, it the absolute truth. Because surely God speaks the truth

So he CAN? That means he's not unconditionally all-powerful.

CAN and WILL are two different meanings. Can He create a higher being than Him? If He willed. But why do that because then He wouldn't be the Most High anymore and it would make no sense. And everything He does is sensible for He is the best of planners. U try to belittle God's supremacy to human standards. Some idiot human will let his ego get in the way and create a more powerful being than him just because someone says he CANT. But in the long run he belittles himself and no longer is the most high. God WONT do this because He knows He is The Supreme Being and nothing will ever surpass Him regardless of what anyone says. So we can submit to and worship Him alone in this life and be rewarded n the next. Or we can disbelieve in Him and His message and/or associate partners in worship with Him in this life and have the most humiliating painful punishment ever. But I guarantee this my friend if u don't call Him ur LORD in this lifeu definitely will in the next

Sheed, will you please drop the preaching? You're not adding anything productive and in fact hurting your own position. Only weak arguments need threats to support them.

(January 16, 2016 at 7:24 pm)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote:

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(January 16, 2016 at 5:02 am)Sheed1980 Wrote: what u and a lot of other people do is try to put God Allah on a human level. Allah CAN do anything He desires for He is Almighty God. The concept ur missing is He WONT have a son, because having offspring is a human/animal act of reproduction and Allah is far above that. Just as He WONT forget, err, eat, drink, get sick, die, repent or many of the other things that we as human have to do through our lives. Just because there are things that we have been blessed to do that God does, doesn't mean it the same. For instance we can forgive people and be merciful bit Allah is Most Forgiving Most Merciful. We as humans can punish people but who's punishment is more severe than Allah's? None. We can see and hear and have knowledge but Allah is All Seeing, All Hearing and All Knowing. We're not. So just because we do things that God does doesn't mean we do them as well as Him, we can't. Also just because we do things doesn't God does them too. He doesn't. Certain actions would lower His standards to the level of His creations which would then make Him equal with others, and God Allah is divinely unique

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What you said is fair enough, but I think the Quran does a pretty good job of "putting Allah on a human level". For example, love is a human emotion. We can even quantify love by examining hormones involved in love. Take Quran 3:31, for example,
"Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Anger is another human emotion/reaction. There are several verses that mention the anger of Allah. For example, Quran 3:162:
Is the man who follows the good pleasure of Allah Like the man who draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and whose abode is in Hell?- A woeful refuge!

Quran 38:27 claims Allah created creation with a purpose in mind:
Not without purpose did We create heaven and earth and all between! that were the thought of Unbelievers! but woe to the Unbelievers because of the Fire (of Hell)!

However, it does not tell us what this purpose is. So we are left wondering: What is the point of existence? Is it necessary? If humans were created only to serve Allah then that would make Allah extremely egotistical. People with big egos demand reverence.

By the way, having children is no problem for the Christian god.

As I said in another response. There r things that God does that we have been blessed with the ability to do too. For instance we see, hear, and have knowledge. But God is All Seeing, All Hearing, All Knowing. So even though we can do things God can do them much better. On the same ticket with love and anger. These are emotions we have but God has them as well and His are the most intense. On the other hand, just because we do things doesn't mean God does them too. For example eating, forgetting, erring, getting sick, dying, using the bathroom, the list goes on and on. Yes Christians believe that Jesus pbuh is the begotten son of God. We as Muslims believe begetting offspring is an animal act of sexual reproduction and this is another thing God does not do. In the Quran 19:35 it says: It is unbefitting to God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him. For when He determines a matter He only says to it "Be" and it is.

(January 16, 2016 at 8:25 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: There is nothing more absurd than the idea of an unlimited being.  It's the spiritual equivalent of "My dad can beat up your dad..."

Wait, are you saying the absurdity of that idea is itself unlimited?

(January 16, 2016 at 8:52 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

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Quote:Irrational pid='1175666' dateline='1452948092']
So he CAN? That means he's not unconditionally all-powerful.

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[quote pid='1176330' dateline='1452991924']

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CAN and WILL are two different meanings. Can He create a higher being than Him? If He willed. But why do that because then He wouldn't be the Most High anymore and it would make no sense. And everything He does is sensible for He is the best of planners. U try to belittle God's supremacy to human standards. Some idiot human will let his ego get in the way and create a more powerful being than him just because someone says he CANT. But in the long run he belittles himself and no longer is the most high. God WONT do this because He knows He is The Supreme Being and nothing will ever surpass Him regardless of what anyone says. So we can submit to and worship Him alone in this life and be rewarded n the next. Or we can disbelieve in Him and His message and/or associate partners in worship with Him in this life and have the most humiliating painful punishment ever.

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Quote: But I guarantee this my friend if u don't call Him ur LORD in this lifeu definitely will in the next

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Why do you get so pissed off when people don't share your delusions?

Nothing is the proof of god, for if there was proof of god in existence there would be no need for atheism.

(January 16, 2016 at 8:14 pm)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: "As a creator, we know nothing about but what he taught us."

I'm pretty confused by that statement. The Quran has not lead directly to any scientific discoveries; it's not a science textbook. Humans know only what they have taught themselves. Was it Allah who taught you how to walk, speak or cook?

Belief in deities is not natural in humans. There are isolated tribes in the jungle of Atheists. These people speak languages that have zero words for "god" because their culture has not become corrupted. There's a good book on the subject by a Christian Missionary (and linguist).turned Atheist, Daniel Everett, called "Don't Sleep, There Are Snakes"

It did lead to a scientific revolution in the M.E.
I won't talk about today's Muslims, but back in the past the scientific activity was pretty strong in the region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in...amic_world

Compare between this, and before Islam.

Yeah, it was pretty strong in the states the early islamic empire conquered. Apparently, their neighbors were pretty smart, I can understand why they coveted their lands and civilizations as they did.

(January 17, 2016 at 4:10 am)Rhythm Wrote: Yeah, it was pretty strong in the states the early islamic empire conquered.  Apparently, their neighbors were pretty smart, I can understand why they coveted their lands and civilizations as they did.

If you want to believe that, be my guest.

Quote:Battani also developed numeric tables which could be used to find the direction of Mecca from different locations

I love your posts, Rhythm 

(January 16, 2016 at 8:25 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: There is nothing more absurd than the idea of an unlimited being.  It's the spiritual equivalent of "My dad can beat up your dad..."

Never knew why it's so hard to believe.
And the "my dad your dad" thing, doesn't fit in the mixture. I would say : if in math infinity is defined & acknowledged, then the concept is not that hard to believe.