(January 18, 2016 at 9:35 am)mr_j936 Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 9:30 am)robvalue Wrote: Homophobia, and similar random prejudices, seem to be a very primal fear of people who are different in some way. I got bullied at school for simply refusing to act like everyone else. I must have presented some sort of weird threat in their mind, and they felt the need to attack first.

Is the Quran more homophobic than the bible? There is actually barely anything about it in the bible, way less than you'd think considering how homophobic Christians talk.

But what is the worst Christians do to a homosexual? Refuse to sell them cake?

Forgot about the medieval times?

(January 18, 2016 at 10:14 am)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 9:23 am)mr_j936 Wrote: You are trying to prove one imaginary story by using another imaginary story... Some women cannot have children, is it a sin to marry and have sex with them? What about women after menopause, is it a sin then too? 

And a homosexual would probably tell you that the penis fits just fine in a variety of places.

I keep saying to myself I don't want to argue religious people, I don't know why I keep coming back... Some things I read just make me so mad... Why do you care where other people put their penises?? Just mind your own business and let others be... I am not referring to you personally but to the Islamic laws you no doubt support and your ideal Islamic nation who would kill all homosexuals...

First off  if a woman can't have children it is still morally correct for a man to have intercourse with her. Ur right the penis can go in different places but a certain place especially with a member of the same sex is immoral. Those are the key words moral and immoral. It doesn't matter to me what other people do with their lives. Islam teaches us that every soul shall be judged by God on what that soul does or doesn't do and not another souls actions. So everybody should let people live their lives and they live their own

I was merely following your logic, you said that the point of reproduction is to have children, and because a man having sex with a man does not result in pregnancy, it is then wrong. Therefore I am extending that same logic to say old people sex is also wrong. You can't pick and choose when the argument will work and when it won't.

Quote:Mrj: Yeah, Christians just annoy homosexuals rather than kill them, but it would be different if there wasn't secular law in charge. In a Christian theocracy, I'd expect just as much savagery as you see in an Islam one.

Yeah I really doubt it. Americans aside(seriously I think american Christians are nuts and not representative of Christianity) They're not killing gays in Armenia, they're not killing gays in the Vatican(they are in mecca) They are not killing gays in Israel, even that bloody butcher the ex prime minister Ehud Olmert is proud of is homosexual daughter etc...

Don't equate Muslims to Christians it really is not the same at all. Yes Christianity had a barbaric age in Europe, but Islam is having a barbaric age everywhere and on several levels of society from the ruling class to the angry mobs...

(January 18, 2016 at 11:04 am)mr_j936 Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 10:14 am)Sheed1980 Wrote: First off  if a woman can't have children it is still morally correct for a man to have intercourse with her. Ur right the penis can go in different places but a certain place especially with a member of the same sex is immoral. Those are the key words moral and immoral. It doesn't matter to me what other people do with their lives. Islam teaches us that every soul shall be judged by God on what that soul does or doesn't do and not another souls actions. So everybody should let people live their lives and they live their own

I was merely following your logic, you said that the point of reproduction is to have children, and because a man having sex with a man does not result in pregnancy, it is then wrong. Therefore I am extending that same logic to say old people sex is also wrong. You can't pick and choose when the argument will work and when it won't.

Quote:Mrj: Yeah, Christians just annoy homosexuals rather than kill them, but it would be different if there wasn't secular law in charge. In a Christian theocracy, I'd expect just as much savagery as you see in an Islam one.

Yeah I really doubt it. Americans aside(seriously I think american Christians are nuts and not representative of Christianity) They're not killing gays in Armenia, they're not killing gays in the Vatican(they are in mecca) They are not killing gays in Israel, even that bloody butcher the ex prime minister Ehud Olmert is proud of is homosexual daughter etc...

Don't equate Muslims to Christians it really is not the same at all. Yes Christianity had a barbaric age in Europe, but Islam is having a barbaric age everywhere and on several levels of society from the ruling class to the angry mobs...

I'm not saying Christians did not persecute homosexual people ... but they really didn't ...

(January 18, 2016 at 11:05 am)Irrational Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 11:04 am)mr_j936 Wrote: I was merely following your logic, you said that the point of reproduction is to have children, and because a man having sex with a man does not result in pregnancy, it is then wrong. Therefore I am extending that same logic to say old people sex is also wrong. You can't pick and choose when the argument will work and when it won't.



Yeah I really doubt it. Americans aside(seriously I think american Christians are nuts and not representative of Christianity) They're not killing gays in Armenia, they're not killing gays in the Vatican(they are in mecca) They are not killing gays in Israel, even that bloody butcher the ex prime minister Ehud Olmert is proud of is homosexual daughter etc...

Don't equate Muslims to Christians it really is not the same at all. Yes Christianity had a barbaric age in Europe, but Islam is having a barbaric age everywhere and on several levels of society from the ruling class to the angry mobs...

I'm not saying Christians did not persecute homosexual people ... but they really didn't ...

I respect those who learn from their mistakes, fix them, and move on to never do them again

So you're saying there are Christian theocracies today that aren't killing homosexuals?

If so, that is certainly some progress.

(January 18, 2016 at 11:07 am)mr_j936 Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 11:05 am)Irrational Wrote: I'm not saying Christians did not persecute homosexual people ... but they really didn't ...

I respect those who learn from their mistakes, fix them, and move on to never do them again

Learn from their mistakes? Uh huh, sure ...

(January 18, 2016 at 11:10 am)robvalue Wrote: So you're saying there are Christian theocracies today that aren't killing homosexuals?

If so, that is certainly some progress.

He has no idea what some Christians still do today ... but then again, he probably lives in a secular country.

(January 18, 2016 at 10:59 am)robvalue Wrote: I would be interested (or more likely frightened) to know how many Christians would be ready, stone in hand, if secular law suddenly failed. I feel fairly confident it would be relatively few here in England. I worry more about some of the vastly religious areas in the US.

It isn't like we have not had gays assaulted and or murdered. Secular law is what has the perp arrested. I have no doubt if secular law were suddenly scrapped in the U.S. and we had the John Hagee, Pat Robertson types as holding a majority of power, even liberal Christians would be thrown in jail and or worse.

I warn my well intended liberal theist friends not to ignore that our nutty right is still using the same book to justify cruelty that they do to justify compassion.

That's it, you shouldn't underestimate what a difference it makes being secular. It overrules God, basically. God then requires secular laws to be voted in that agree with what he wants, or he can't do anything.

And you're right Brian, it's secular law that steps in and arrests someone, not the religion policing itself.

(January 18, 2016 at 11:15 am)robvalue Wrote: That's it, you shouldn't underestimate what a difference it makes being secular. It overrules God, basically. God then requires secular laws to be voted in that agree with what he wants, or he can't do anything.

And you're right Brian, it's secular law that steps in and arrests someone, not the religion policing itself.

Not to derail the thread here, but secular law is supposed to, not that it does it perfectly, but it should also apply as an anti monopoly, anti trust concept to political and business ideas as well. It is never wise to assume any aspect of society cant grow to a monopoly and never become abusive. But especially religion.