(January 18, 2016 at 3:52 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 1:35 pm)Irrational Wrote: I see you've now revealed you're a monotheist and not just merely an "open-minded agnostic". No wonder you seemed too exposed to theistic and Christian materials/resources and did not pay much attention to secular ones.

What's the next thing you're going to tell us about yourself? You're a Catholic? If so, just say so now. Don't hide behind terms like "open-minded" and act like as if you don't have a definite view regarding God because you're being "objective". Very misleading of you.

You're surprised?

Not really. Just saw her newest label under her username and needed to comment on that. I don't like deception.

What is up with the new theists and deceptive labels anyway? One claims to be a biology student aspiring to do research in biology even though they show an utter lack of understanding of evolution, and another one claims to be a physicist even though he is clearly an idiot.

(January 18, 2016 at 4:33 pm)Irrational Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 3:52 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: You're surprised?

Not really. Just saw her newest label under her username and needed to comment on that. I don't like deception.

What is up with the new theists and deceptive labels anyway? One claims to be a biology student aspiring to do research in biology even though they show an utter lack of understanding of evolution, and another one claims to be a physicist even though he is clearly an idiot.

Most of them are bullshit artists one way or another (it goes with the territory), especially the ones who hope to convince the skeptics.

(January 18, 2016 at 1:35 pm)Irrational Wrote:

(January 17, 2016 at 1:06 pm)athrock Wrote: One more point - and this is one that you atheists CONSTANTLY fail to acknowledge: God is not going to send people to hell just because they have not heard the gospel. It just doesn't work that way. If your Baptist upbringing led you to believe otherwise, then blame John Calvin.

You might benefit from reading some basic Catholic theology.

I see you've now revealed you're a monotheist and not just merely an "open-minded agnostic". No wonder you seemed too exposed to theistic and Christian materials/resources and did not pay much attention to secular ones.

What's the next thing you're going to tell us about yourself? You're a Catholic? If so, just say so now. Don't hide behind terms like "open-minded" and act like as if you don't have a definite view regarding God because you're being "objective". Very misleading of you.

I never stated that I was an agnostic.

And I'm still open-minded. 

(January 23, 2016 at 10:19 am)athrock Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 1:35 pm)Irrational Wrote: I see you've now revealed you're a monotheist and not just merely an "open-minded agnostic". No wonder you seemed too exposed to theistic and Christian materials/resources and did not pay much attention to secular ones.

What's the next thing you're going to tell us about yourself? You're a Catholic? If so, just say so now. Don't hide behind terms like "open-minded" and act like as if you don't have a definite view regarding God because you're being "objective". Very misleading of you.

I never stated that I was an agnostic.

And I'm still open-minded. 

Being open-minded, I am surprised that you would invite the Board to read Catholic theology.  The Catholic Church has contradicted itself and changed its mind on so many different issues.  Consider this:

Quote:It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/FLORENCE.HTM

Over the last few centuries, the Catholic Church has abandoned a teaching which it, for over a thousand years, "firmly believed, professed and preached".  This is an historical fact, having nothing to do with theology.  Ditto for the Church's teachings on religious liberty and a whole host of other issues.  Catholicism is a man-made religion, not a "divine" one, which exist nowhere in the Universe, as god(s) does not exist.

https://youtu.be/mgPBQHl7wOc?t=103

Skip to the 1:43 minute mark.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-s...is-collins

(January 16, 2016 at 6:40 pm)athrock Wrote: [quote pid='1176130' dateline='1452982208']


I mean, if you're going to be a REAL atheist, you've got to think outside the box of Western society and have reasons for rejecting more than just the nasty God of the OT, don't you think?

[/quote]

Personally I reject all gods unconditionally.
I do not have to know all the details about Ganesha to think that an elephant headed god is unlikely to be a real thing and it's the same with all unlikely magical beings. so I put them all in the mental box along with pixies, fairies trolls and gnomes marked "bullshit" which contains things I disbelieve. I do however remain open to the possibility that I may be wrong, I'm probably not though.

(January 23, 2016 at 10:50 am)Jehanne Wrote:

(January 23, 2016 at 10:19 am)athrock Wrote: I never stated that I was an agnostic.

And I'm still open-minded. 

Being open-minded, I am surprised that you would invite the Board to read Catholic theology.  The Catholic Church has contradicted itself and changed its mind on so many different issues.  Consider this:

Quote:It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/FLORENCE.HTM

Over the last few centuries, the Catholic Church has abandoned a teaching which it, for over a thousand years, "firmly believed, professed and preached".  This is an historical fact, having nothing to do with theology.  Ditto for the Church's teachings on religious liberty and a whole host of other issues.  Catholicism is a man-made religion, not a "divine" one, which exist nowhere in the Universe, as god(s) does not exist.

Sorry I'm just seeing this.

No, the Catholic Church has not changed its position. The key is in understanding the definition what it means to be a member of the Church. I'm afraid your "historical fact" is simply an example of ignorance of the full details.

Despite all the efforts made by Protestants over the past 500 years to prove the Catholic Church has changed a doctrine in such a manner as to repudiate a past teaching, nothing has been found.

Doesn't stop folks from trying, though.

(January 23, 2016 at 10:51 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: https://youtu.be/mgPBQHl7wOc?t=103

Skip to the 1:43 minute mark.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-s...is-collins

Harris emphasizes the final moment of Collins' search without fully appreciating the time and rigorous intellectual effort that went into the journey prior to that moment.

The "waterfall moment" represented a moment of grace when Collins was finally able to submit his WILL to that which his intellect already understood.

But not having had a similar experience himself, it is understandable that Harris fails to grasp what Collins was saying about that moment. Consequently, he is forced to explain how a man with brilliant academic and scientific credentials can behave so foolishly as to become a believer. Harris devises the idea of "compartmentalization" and opines that Collins' intellect and faith must be walled off from one another. (Because how can anyone who is that intelligent actually believe this crap. Is that it, Sam?)

Harris sounds like an eloquent guy, btw, much better than most atheists I've watched.

Thanks for sharing the clip.

(January 25, 2016 at 12:01 pm)athrock Wrote: Harris emphasizes the final moment of Collins' search without fully appreciating the time and rigorous intellectual effort that went into the journey prior to that moment.

The "waterfall moment" represented a moment of grace when Collins was finally able to submit his WILL to that which his intellect already understood.

From where I sit his intellect didn't win but his desire to have the mystery of god in his life did. His intellect was basically appeased that it could go on functioning as it always had professionally. His decision was to live with the seeming paradox and allow that how both could be true was beyond him. So a leap of faith, not a reasoned result.

(January 25, 2016 at 11:54 am)athrock Wrote:

(January 23, 2016 at 10:50 am)Jehanne Wrote: Being open-minded, I am surprised that you would invite the Board to read Catholic theology.  The Catholic Church has contradicted itself and changed its mind on so many different issues.  Consider this:



http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/FLORENCE.HTM

Over the last few centuries, the Catholic Church has abandoned a teaching which it, for over a thousand years, "firmly believed, professed and preached".  This is an historical fact, having nothing to do with theology.  Ditto for the Church's teachings on religious liberty and a whole host of other issues.  Catholicism is a man-made religion, not a "divine" one, which exist nowhere in the Universe, as god(s) does not exist.

Sorry I'm just seeing this.

No, the Catholic Church has not changed its position. The key is in understanding the definition what it means to be a member of the Church. I'm afraid your "historical fact" is simply an example of ignorance of the full details.

Despite all the efforts made by Protestants over the past 500 years to prove the Catholic Church has changed a doctrine in such a manner as to repudiate a past teaching, nothing has been found.

Doesn't stop folks from trying, though.

How about marrying non-catholics.  this was changed in 1818, no?