This isn't current news, but I feel that it deserves a reopening in light of the evils which we have recently seen with how Christians treat their own children. In 1993, a mass grave was discovered where one of the Magdalene Laundries of Ireland was still operating. Generations of children were not just abandoned to work there for life as slaves by their families, they were erased! Magdalen laundries existed all over Ireland through the 20th Century, they were most active in the 1950's - 1980's, and the church pocketed much money from their operation. In 2013, the Irish government finally demanded compensation and an apology for the victims from the church for this crime which it committed against humanity, and to this date the Vatican has refused to do either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_...in_Ireland

The wiki mentions a movie which was released in 2003 - I saw this, and recommend it highly.

The first time I read about this Catholic slave camp for women, I felt sick and disgusted for days to know that I am descended from that culture, despite my understanding of geographical influences and the pressure which chronic foreign dominance had empowered that church with, more so than with any people anywhere on this earth. Magdalene laundries are a shining example of just how harmless a religion, when and where it has the power to good or evil, always chooses to do more evil than good.

Philomena is a great book/film that explores these issues too which I'd recommend if you haven't come across them.

Indeed the horrors that occurred in these nunneries for 'fallen women'. That mass grave (in a septic tank I believe?) was what sparked a lot of Irish to turn their backs on the RCC once and for all.

Thanks for making the OP about this.

But the church is an influence for good...according to the church.

Bastards.

And then they claim to hold the moral high ground over us atheists.

It's kind of remarkable what a nice country Ireland is now, and how it's prosperity/humanity is directly correllated to the Churche's decline.

You realize that the Magdalene horrors are only one speck of rampant clerical exploitation and abuse in Ireland?

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission...hild_Abuse

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Cath...in_Ireland

It would appear the Catholic sex abuse in Ireland was 1000 times worse than what it was and in the United States. Worse because it likely was proportionally much greater, and involved a ton of government negligence/complicity. Everyone in power seemed to know it was going on, yet facilitated it/looked the other way.

It would appear that the problem was an excess of piety, and I think to a largeextent that is true. It also was just grinding poverty that contributed to it, and the bigotry, prejudice and ignorance that go with it.

In order for a population to be concerned/outraged about such government abuse/neglect there has to be a strong middle class that cares and advocates for the public, common good. Everyone seemed to know how bad the industrial schools and magdalene laundries were, but most people seemed fine with them existing since they "took care of a problem."

Since Ireland was historically so poor, there was no real "progressive movement" which was parallel to the ones in North America and western Europe, where public concern about such issues (corruption included) happened.

If Angela's Ashes and other things I've read about pre 1980s Ireland are true, Ireland's ethos was governed by Catholic fundamentalism merged with the worst of victorian/edwardian classism and bigotry. The general attitude seemed to be a real hatred of the poor,disadvantage and marginalized.

Ireland was a democratic republic during the 50s, when the worst of this stuff happened. And democracies reflect the values of their population "the will of the people" if you will. And the will of the people in Ireland at that time, was to have all this happen

Ireland, by far, was one of the worst countries when it comes to institutionalised abuse. For decades it was the closest thing to a catholic theocracy, Europe ever saw in modern times. Not even Franco's Spain was as bad in that department.

This makes headlines for quite some time now. Since Ireland shrugged of religious domination, more and more of these stories surface.

(February 26, 2016 at 12:49 pm)abaris Wrote: Ireland, by far, was one of the worst countries when it comes to institutionalised abuse. For decades it was the closest thing to a catholic theocracy, Europe ever saw in modern times. Not even Franco's Spain was as bad in that department.

This makes headlines for quite some time now. Since Ireland shrugged of religious domination, more and more of these stories surface.

As far as we know. We don't hear very much about Catholic sex abuse cases from non English speaking countries do we?

I would assume Franco made use of monks and nuns to look after orphans. And with all monks and nuns there is an element of sexual repression and frustration. You were a Catholic school girl Abarais. Did the nuns ever talk about how people who had sex before marriage would go to hell?

Do you agree that one of the reasons it happened was because of the population's complicity in it? It gave the state less to worry about, and likely people didn't care about the well being of "good for nothings" anyway.

It seems that the progressive/liberal "pulse" in Ireland (for all sorts of issues) didn't really exist when much of this happened. I am not sure a JFK or RFK could be elected there, and an equivalent was certainly never produced.

I think it's apparent why the Church was so dominant in Irleand. People valued/respected it, because it appeared to advocate for the people against English/Protestant exploitation and domination.

Funnily enough I have heard the famous Irish "Sexual repression" is fairly recent in it's history and directly is linked to the growing use of the English language. In middle ages, when gaelic culture and language widely used, many people ignored churche's decrees on sex, and were very.. shall we say... free in their passions .

Just something I read somewhere..

Denial does flow like a river from theists wherever reality is inconvenient, and it's wherever the lying fuckers have the power to get away with it.

You are a half-wit Poe and all-around shit-posting asshole, and you argue with people on this forum who have history degrees. Who shall I believe, so hard to decide /s

(February 26, 2016 at 3:48 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote: Denial does flow like a river from theists wherever reality is inconvenient, and it's wherever the lying fuckers have the power to get away with it.

You are a half-wit Poe and all-around shit-posting asshole, and you argue with people on this forum who have history degrees. Who shall I believe, so hard to decide /s

I deny none of it. I am on your side .

Ireland was a fucked up soceity for most of the 20th century. I just wonder what all factors at play there were.

(February 26, 2016 at 4:08 pm)TrueChristian Wrote:

(February 26, 2016 at 3:48 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote: Denial does flow like a river from theists wherever reality is inconvenient, and it's wherever the lying fuckers have the power to get away with it.

You are a half-wit Poe and all-around shit-posting asshole, and you argue with people on this forum who have history degrees. Who shall I believe, so hard to decide /s

I deny none of it. I am on your side .

Ireland was a fucked up soceity for most of the 20th century. I just wonder what all factors at play there were.

There isn't enough space in a forum post to explain the full regression of events which fucked up Irish culture, but the reason why it was so religiously fucked up until so recently is on account of a long history of British dominance which did not end until recently for most of Ireland, and never has for its 6 northermost counties. Irish land was coveted by the English since they first set foot there because it is very rich, owing to the fact that it, unlike the rest of Britain and most Europe, was completely buried under ice during the most recent glaciation, ~10,000 years ago. This led the British to malign the more primitive Irish culture (which was so on account of very little inter-cultural isolation due to their geographic position, it would have had a similar effect on any group of people), forcing them off their rich lands on the East side to a nearly uninhabitable region of the West coast (see Oliver Cromwell on "To Hell or to Connaught!"). In the 19th century, the British engineered a mass famine by encouraging over-reliance on potatoes, which got hit with a catastrophic blight. The Irish could not legally own land, the British lords refused to hire them, and the only people there who didn't starve were those lords and their families. Millions of people emigrated, or starved. For those who survived, the only constant was their church, and that one was the same which St. Patrick had introduced to their ancestors during the 6th Century. The same during the violence all through the 20th Century, the secession of he Republic from the remaining 6 British-controlled counties, the hopeless and violent campaigns by Sinn Fein to reclaim those counties, and the harassment of Catholics who live in those counties. By British Protestant tradition, each year fresh Catholic rage is incited everywhere on that island during the parade of "Orange" idiots (Protestant William of Orange, who was credited for kicking the Catholic rulers out of Britain) through Belfast. This made Catholicism much more than a religion to the Irish, it was their cultural identity. Hateful oppression and relative geographic isolation is how you make a religious institution powerful beyond question with any cultural group.

(February 26, 2016 at 4:08 pm)TrueChristian Wrote: I deny none of it. I am on your side .

Ireland was a fucked up soceity for most of the 20th century. I just wonder what all factors at play there were.

If only someone would take you seriously. Wouldn't that be nice?