(April 11, 2016 at 5:05 pm)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 4:51 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Your attitude creates an incentive for people to not report potentially dangerous situations.

Only your erroneous way of thinking is dangerous.

why because he is outside your little box of comfort?

THAT'S WHAT INDEPENDENT THOUGHT LOOKS LIKE!!!

Drich Wrote:

Minimalist Wrote:Dripshit, you really need to absorb the words of Abe Lincoln.

the only thing foolish is pretending the emperor has 'new cloths' that only the 'wise' can see when clearly he is not wearing anything at all!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes

Or in this case potentially allowing the mentally ill set the standards of society.

The current standard is that the law pretty much ignores them, so no one is really checking to make sure who belongs in what bathroom as long as they don't stand out as being in the 'wrong' bathroom. That's working really well, has never caused a problem, which is more than you can say for just about anything. You know what a real sign of mental illness is? Insisting on fixing things that aren't broken.

(April 11, 2016 at 5:37 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Mark 16:18

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


and note, there are NO requirements listed in regards to the 'sick', other than they be sick.  So, Drich needs but trot out an actual believer (or demonstrate HIS ability) who can INVARIABLY treat any and all 'transexuals', regardless of race, creed or color, of their affliction and Lordy! Lordy! Lordy! Atheist Forums will be no more !!!!

Come on, just one True Christian is all we need here.


Just one !!!!!

1 Cor 12 "One body many parts" Meaning we all are not given the same spiritual gifts. IE we all can heal people. Some are teachers. Some are encouragers ect...

Man, Drich! You are an expert in everything!!! Is any topic you DON'T know more about than everyone else?



The narcissism is strong in this one...

(April 12, 2016 at 11:38 am)Drich Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 5:37 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Mark 16:18

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


and note, there are NO requirements listed in regards to the 'sick', other than they be sick.  So, Drich needs but trot out an actual believer (or demonstrate HIS ability) who can INVARIABLY treat any and all 'transexuals', regardless of race, creed or color, of their affliction and Lordy! Lordy! Lordy! Atheist Forums will be no more !!!!

Come on, just one True Christian is all we need here.


Just one !!!!!

1 Cor 12 "One body many parts" Meaning we all are not given the same spiritual gifts. IE we all can heal people. Some are teachers. Some are encouragers ect...

Oh, boy. Here comes the scripture...*sigh*

(April 11, 2016 at 5:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 4:04 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: That sounds very progressive, except if someone is indeed suffering from a mental disorder it is not noble to allow them to irreversibly harm themselves. For example, it is right and proper to intervene when a severely depressed person tries to commit suicide rather than respect their personal autonomy. Likewise, it is right and proper to treat substance abusers rather than make it easy for them to poison themselves in the name of liberty.Right now, some people feel virtuous because they believe they are opposing bigotry and ignorance. They see themselves as fighting oppression. Their virtue signalling has nothing to do with compassion. Calling Drich a bigot only makes them feel good about themselves.

But Drich did raised the cultural issue in a clumsy fashion. Cultures do not self-segregate the sexes purely out of modesty, moral sentiment, or taboo. Many social practices evolved to protect people in situations where they may be vulnerable, like states of undress. Sexual predators taking advantage of a misguided law to remove sex segregation is a legitimate concern. Also state mandates to alter public and private infrastructure just to sooth the feelings of a tiny minority would divert resources away from more worthwhile pursuits.

I agree that unless you have a penis, you should not go into a woman's bathroom/lockerroom, and vice versa. For one, if we allow anyone to go into any bathroom/lockerromm so long as they say "I identify with this sex", this opens the doors to fakes who are sexual predators. Second, even though bathrooms wouldn't be as big of a deal for me personally, I respect that there are women who understandably are not comfortable with it. As for lockerrooms, I'm sorry but I would not feel comfortable with a man going in there while I'm in there changing/showering/etc... even if he did say he identified as female. I have no problem with a 3rd option of "gender neutral" bathroom/lockerrooms though. 

I do think there is a difference between intervening when someone is upset and trying to hurt themselves, and intervening when someone has gone through therapy and has decided to go under the knife for extensive surgery. At that point I see it as them being under the care of professionals and doctors, and though I may not agree that it's the healthiest course of action, I would not feel like it is in my authority to stop it from happening. 

The point where the lines may get blurred though, is when we are dealing with people who "feel" they should be blind/deaf/legless/armless/etc. There really are people out there who feel they are in the wrong body and that they should be in the body of someone who is blind, or an amputee or something. Should doctors help them out with that by blinding them? Or cutting off their legs? Obviously the answer is no. But then the question is, how is this different then, from a man who feels he should be a woman and wants to get his penis cut off? If we are being completely objective here, how is this different? I think the difference is that a person who undergoes sex change surgery is still able to function completely properly and normally with all their body parts (at least outside of the bedroom, but inside is not our business).... unlike the person who is unable to see because they had their eyes poked out by a doctor or something. Thoughts?

...And this is the reason for the OP. (more or less, I'm being clumsy remember..)

Drich Wrote:

Crossless1 Wrote:So . . . the guy who hectors others in another thread about supposedly wishing to restrict a bigot's "free exercise of religion" when he violates anti-discrimination laws now wants to know why the 'patients' -- supposedly "mentally compromised people" -- run the 'asylum' when they try to affect national policy by exercising their First Amendment rights to petition the government for a redress of grievances. What a jackass.

But again, if GID people do indeed have a diagnosible mental illness Shouldn't the treatment of said illness be in the forefront of this society's concern, rather than changing society to allow enabling of said illness?

The thing is, being trans is not synonymous with gender identity dysphoria; and when it IS the case, transitioning can be very effective as the cure.

Remember that the key difference between eccentricity and mental illness is ability to function effectively. A person suffering from GID is usually no longer suffering from it once they align their outward gender identity with their inner one.

Can't see the problem with a lovely transexual to be honest. Guaranteed anal.

(April 11, 2016 at 6:06 pm)Goosebump Wrote:

(April 11, 2016 at 3:44 pm)Mathilda Wrote: You're right in that being trans is about gender identity and being lesbian, gay or bisexual concerns your sexuality. The two are different.

But it's down to practicality because they face the same kind of bigotry from society. Not every T wants to be lumped in with the LGB, but many T's are, or have been more fluid with their own sexuality.

So it's political and shared experience. Got it, thank you.

Also it seems like all the heat on this "bathroom/birther" stuff is on the male side; similarly with the anti-gay issues. 

Does it just boil down to strait men being terrified of dicks that aren't their own?

flip the coin sport. You are potentially putting "mentally Ill" men in the lady's restroom. And you are putting a female potentially in a hostel male restroom.

How long before a mentally Ill female get 'raped' by some monster who want to help her figure out she is indeed a 'woman?'

Drich Wrote:

Mathilda Wrote:If someone transitions and can as a consequent function perfectly well in society. If they are accepted as such in their chosen gender and no one knows their medical history, which becomes less and less relevant to their daily lives. If they are happy and contended with their lives and able to achieve great things, then how can they be considered mentally ill?

Seriously?

It's like I woke up in the twilight zone... Mental Illness is defined by the medical community. It is a series of behavioral disorder that affects cognitive thought. ('good' or bad makes no difference) It has absolutely nothing to do with personal assessment, but rather setting a bar of mental stability and documenting how and why those who can not reach said bar. Then setting in place a course of treatment to help those who cant reach that bar.

Mental illness is not a standard set forth or defined by personal assessment (what you or we think should be allowed.) It is a standard set forth by professionals who currently look at the underlining behaviors (not just what manifests itself on the surface/what you are judging) in order to make a determination if an individual will be a danger to THEM SELVES or others now or in the future if their given disorder is left unchecked.

I'm not a psychologist, but I DO have a degree in psychology, for what it's worth. There's a line between diagnosable mental illness and having issues. Many people who are not comfortable with their gender identity to the point that they elect to transition to some degree are not diagnosable as having GID. You only have GID if it's harming your ability to live your life.

And a mental illness does not have to rise to the level that you are a danger to yourself or others to be diagnosable. And many mental illnesses do not get worse over time untreated; with schizophrenia being a notable exception. I've never heard of someone killing someone because they have GID, and when someone with GID kills themselves, it is almost always due to depression brought on by being treated badly by others.

First rule of Psych Club: Know your limitations. Don't diagnose people unless you're qualified. Don't diagnose people you don't know.