Suffice to say, both authors of Drippy's book are proponents of the so called conversion therapy. Zucker ran a gender identity clinic until he closed shop after coming under scrutiny. So, business as usual.

(April 12, 2016 at 3:51 pm)Drich Wrote:

(April 12, 2016 at 3:35 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Treating people with emotional/mental disorder as inherently irrational, damaging to society, immoral or undeserving of consideration or accommodation as members of society. Legitimately delusional people all over the world get their own special buildings where they can go to talk to their respective imaginary friend and no one complains.

Ah, no. I am saying people with mental disorders/mental illness should not be in a position to make laws that allows them to indulge their disorder.

Religion is a mental disorder, get a grip man.

(April 12, 2016 at 3:51 pm)Drich Wrote:

(April 12, 2016 at 3:35 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Treating people with emotional/mental disorder as inherently irrational, damaging to society, immoral or undeserving of consideration or accommodation as members of society. Legitimately delusional people all over the world get their own special buildings where they can go to talk to their respective imaginary friend and no one complains.

Ah, no. I am saying people with mental disorders/mental illness should not be in a position to make laws that allows them to indulge their disorder.

Surprised to learn you advocate the separation of church and state.

I'm not sure what narrative I'm making up then. Let me know and I can address any misunderstanding I may have had.

(April 12, 2016 at 1:30 pm)Drich Wrote:

(April 12, 2016 at 11:05 am)Vincent Wrote: Drich,

According to my therapist and mental health professional who actually earned a degree in this shit, I am mentally healthy.

And I am transgender.

Or would you claim to know MORE than a professional in the field? Or would you use that age-old "queers have taken over the subject of psychiatrics, so the opinion of a therapist is invalid" argument?

So?

You do understand that you are a minority with in a minority, with in yet another minority? Meaning the first minority is that trans gendered people represent less than 1% of the total population. That is minority 1, Minority 2 is the fact that the Mayo Clinic cites the a fraction of the Transsexual community actually receives help. That is minority 2. Of those who do seek or receive help, a very small minority are stable. that is minority 3. Figuritivly speaking you and people like you are but a handful compared to the millions who suffer from GID and are not mentallly stable.

That said

Should the millions who are not 'mentally stable' dictate policy for those who are/ do not suffer a mental affliction? Or in your case of the thousands or maybe hundreds of people who have won their battle with GID in a position to dictate law to the 100's of millions even billions who do not suffer from this affliction in any way shape or form?

Don't be fooled by these other clowns who are trying to make this about your right to live your life. no. This discussion is about a minority of mentally ill people dictating living conditions to hundreds of million of people. And how that is supposed to make sense.

Um... I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. Minority 1 is irrelevant, and minority 2 is either outdated or skewed. 

I have spoken to many members of the transgender community. I have been amongst their communities. And most of the ones I know have spoken to therapists. NOT because they are mentally ill or experiencing trauma, but because the majority want to medically transition. And in order to do that, you need a consensual note from a therapist. And usually the therapist will withhold that note if he/she believes you are not emotionally capable of handling the medical transition process. And mind you, that preparedness they look for has less to do with your gender identity and more to do with outside influences (i.e. is your family okay with it, have you been going by your preferred pronouns, are you socially transitioned in at least 2 areas of your life, etc.). Unless they are dong it for attention (which I'm sure happens occasionally, in which case they are not really transgender and therefore data on them is not representative of the trans community), trans people tend to know they are trans, or at the very least are on the road to knowing and just need an extra push from a therapist. Most trans people have experienced symptoms of it since early childhood, about 3-4 and onwards. Most have dealt with gender dysphoria in some way throughout their lives. A therapist will not tell someone they're not trans. They won't try to convince them they are not, and they don't give out a certified test to make sure they are. 

It's very much like sexuality. You can't "cure" it because it's not a disease. It's just a part of the person. It probably will not satisfy a gay person to try to make them straight, as it will not satisfy a trans person to try to make them identify with the gender that matches their genitals. A person's gender identity is their gender identity. 

Some trans people experience more gender dysphoria (mental health professionals don't often use GID anymore - outdated term) than others. And it CAN lead to depression. That is true. That is precisely why trans people seek to medically transition. That's what tends to turn them into happier individuals. 

The thing that separates transgender from being a mental illness (at least, the way I see it) is treatment. In treating a disorder, you attack what's going wrong in the brain through cognitive and behavioral therapy. That's how OCD, schizophrenia, etc. are approached. But to help a trans person, what happens? Mental health professionals seek to help them change their body. Because no matter what you do, a trans person will not be fully content with the body they have. Being transgender is not "curable" because, as psychiatrists have figured out, the brain is fine. The body is just out of alignment with it. That's why most people consider it a medical condition, in which the gender identity and the body don't match.  

I don't understand what the rest of your post is saying and I have never heard any credible mental health professionals approach transgenderism with that hostile attitude so I am going to disregard it until further notice.

(April 12, 2016 at 3:53 pm)Drich Wrote:

(April 12, 2016 at 3:41 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: Tell you what, you can lock up the transsexuals unless we manage to lock up the folks with imaginary friends first.  Go!

Who said lock up? All I'm saying is tell them no, or escort thier ass out the bathroom if they get lost or confused.

Yes, because as you know, your daughter would feel SUPER comfortable to be greeted by this transman when she walks into the women's restroom.

 

According to the logic of Drich.

(April 12, 2016 at 4:25 pm)Vincent Wrote:

(April 12, 2016 at 3:53 pm)Drich Wrote: Who said lock up? All I'm saying is tell them no, or escort thier ass out the bathroom if they get lost or confused.

Yes, because as you know, your daughter would feel SUPER comfortable to be greeted by this transman when she walks into the women's restroom.

 

According to the logic of Drich.

And letting trans people use the bathroom of their choice is supposed to make an exploitable loophole. It seems to me that requiring trans men like this to use the women's room would be an even easier loophole. Now a cis man who wants to go in the women's restroom doesn't even have to bother dressing up like a woman anymore. How is this protecting ANYONE?

(April 12, 2016 at 4:31 pm)BlackBird Wrote:

(April 12, 2016 at 4:25 pm)Vincent Wrote: Yes, because as you know, your daughter would feel SUPER comfortable to be greeted by this transman when she walks into the women's restroom.

 

According to the logic of Drich.

And letting trans people use the bathroom of their choice is supposed to make an exploitable loophole. It seems to me that requiring trans men like this to use the women's room would be an even easier loophole. Now a cis man who wants to go in the women's restroom doesn't even have to bother dressing up like a woman anymore. How is this protecting ANYONE?

Because Republican logic.  

(April 12, 2016 at 3:12 pm)Drich Wrote:

(April 12, 2016 at 2:02 pm)Mathilda Wrote: The difficulty is in determining who is transsexual and who isn't. If you truly are a transsexual then the only effective treatment is to transition. Absolutely everything else has been tried. And believe me, the medical establishment did try. They have historically been extremely hostile to transsexuals.

That's not true according to the study i posted a few pages back. "distress" is alleviated when the patient is comfortable with whatever sexual assignment he or she wishes to obtain. For some that means varying degrees of gender reassignment while other seek to be comfortable in their own bodies.

Or are you saying all GID people should be forced to under go gender reassignment even if the want to learn to live how they were born?

Transsexuals are the ones requesting gender reassignment.

The problem is that you are equivocating between patients and transsexuals and it can be difficult for the psychiatrist and the patient to determine what they are. This thread subject is "Transsexual", not transgendered. Transsexual is a misnomer because it is not about sexuality, but it has stuck and is gradually being replaced with the more umbrella term transgendered. But transgendered includes the whole spectrum whereas transsexuals by definition wish to change their bodies to match the gender that they identify as. And for those people. transitioning is the only effective treatment.

(April 12, 2016 at 3:21 pm)Drich Wrote: Ever watch a beautiful mind with Russel crow?

Dude accomplish astounding things, and in time learned to be content.

Here's Russell Crowe being content:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPdm838AUgw