(April 15, 2016 at 11:31 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Again, the concern with pervs taking advantage of a new law like this is only a smaller part of why I think we should draw the line at sex change. I feel like people are acting as though this is the one and only reason why I take take the stance I do. The reason I posted that story is because the first time I suggested something like this happening, the response from a lot of people was that this would never happen, and that no man would never dress as women to peep at them in bathrooms and lockerrooms. Well, yes they would. It's a real existing fetish similar to peeping tomery. And given a better opportunity for the pervs to do this may increase this sort of incident. We'd be taking that risk at the expense of women being violated by men in their own bathrooms and lockerrooms. And that's not fair to them/us.  

And as pointed out by me, other countries do allow transsexuals to use the toilets for the gender that they identify as and this is not a problem that occurs.

(April 15, 2016 at 11:31 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Nonetheless, the main problem I think with allowing anyone to use any restroom so long as they claim transgenderism is the fact that many women would not feel comfortable with people who are physical men going into women's bathrooms/lockerrooms, even if those people identify as women. 

What do you even mean by people who are physical men? You mean people who have penises or someone who looks like a man in drag?

Because if it's the former then no pre-operative male to female transsexual is going to let anyone see their penis and wouldn't want to reveal the presence of one. And if it's the latter then you're ignoring the fact that for the most part you won't be able to tell the difference just by looking at someone. There are plenty of cisgendered women that can look like men. Not to mention intersex people. Why no mention of them creeping out women in bathrooms or locker rooms? What are they supposed to do?

And if it is the latter, then the laws recently passed mean that you now have to share your locker room with trans men who really do have male brains and lots of testosterone.

(April 15, 2016 at 11:41 am)Drich Wrote: This thread is gotten away from me. I'll be the first to admit it. The problem is none of you seem to want to address the points I've been making. you all just continue to spin everything back to bigotry and hate.

However in truth I have raised several issues that none of you want to address. The chief of which is who is responsible when someone using these laws to fish or troll in the wrong bathroom decides to step things up and someone gets hurt because of it?

Or why do we have laws on the books that makes people vulnerable to predators at all? especially if this law only benefits less than 1% of the population?

Again I don't care if a woman who is now physically a man uses the mens room, what I will not abid is being made to stand outside the woman's room waiting for my 8 year old, while an obvious man in a dress walks in behind her!

P/C bullshit aside if anyone of you were in a situation like that and you did not know this man in a dress from adam you can't tell me your initial reaction would be the same if it were a grandmother who followed your daughter in the lady's room.

If and when this happens Lord help me I will be on the news because I will not let that go down.

Drich, you have been proved unequivocally wrong on several counts, but we'd never expect you to concede, so it's okay if you want to keep ranting and raving.

(April 15, 2016 at 12:00 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Drich, you have been proved unequivocally wrong on several counts, but we'd never expect you to concede, so it's okay if you want to keep ranting and raving.

Basically this. We'll just continue to ignore him rather than repeat ourselves.

(April 15, 2016 at 11:45 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 10:59 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No. There are much more men on women sex crimes than women on men or women on women sex crimes. Men are much more likely to be into peeping tomery and much more likely to have kinky fetishes.

But sexual kinks and sex drives are a product of the brain, not the body. Male to female transsexuals have female brains according to brain scans. Pre-operative transsexuals take extremely high doses of oestrogen in order to feminise their bodies, to the extent that they have to have regular blood tests. And post-operative they can lose a lot of their sex drive because unlike cisgendered women they don't have any means of creating testosterone.

But what the new laws do mean is that female to male transsexuals who are taking high doses of testosterone, which is known to increase sex drive, now have to use the female toilets. Not to mention that it ignores that lesbians exist. So the logic behind the law is completely screwy.

The only way it makes sense is if you see it as a product of the right wing Christian male's obsession with female fertility and seeing women as baby making objects to be owned.

Mathilda, I think what it comes down to is that some people are incapable of mentally separating anatomical genitalia from gender. Penis = male, and vagina = female. It's a type of binary thinking (Drich has caught himself in that particular trap before, though he'll never be aware of it) that takes careful consideration and empathy to break out of. It's a sad and unfortunate truth...

I actually find this whole debate insulting to men. It's basically assuming that all men are potential rapists and is just another form of bigotry.

Yes.

(April 15, 2016 at 12:03 pm)Mathilda Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 12:00 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Drich, you have been proved unequivocally wrong on several counts, but we'd never expect you to concede, so it's okay if you want to keep ranting and raving.

Basically this. We'll just continue to ignore him rather than repeat ourselves.

Yeah, exactly. I shouldn't have even bothered because now he is going to demand exact post numbers as evidence, and then the entire thread gets reset to "repeat." Sadly, he will walk out of this thinking himself the victor, and bring it up in future threads as an example of how he schooled us all, yet again. Terrifying, isn't it?

(April 15, 2016 at 12:07 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Mathilda, I think what it comes down to is that some people are incapable of mentally separating anatomical genitalia from gender.  Penis = male, and vagina = female.  It's a type of binary thinking (Drich has caught himself in that particular trap before, though he'll never be aware of it) that takes careful consideration and empathy to break out of.  It's a sad and unfortunate truth...

Completely agree. Binary religious thinking is a hallmark of a theist.

Thinking in degrees is a mental function. And like all mental functions, whether it's the ability to empathise, to understand someone else's point of view, or to use words or numbers, or to mentally visualise etc, there will be some people that are unable to do it.

I just find it funny that it's always America, within the first world, who is stuck with backwards religious people trying to stop people from being themselves.

Assuming all trans people are perverts is just downright stupid. That's practically stating that all people of both genders are perverts as well.

Not gonna lie, i don't think people agree with that as a statement.

All the trans people I have ever known are very lovely sensitive individuals

Right wing Christians just like being bigoted fucks to minority groups