(April 15, 2016 at 7:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think anyone has answered my post below in regards to the bolded. I'm curious to know where you guys would find it appropriate to draw the line, if a line should be drawn at all, and whether the standards should be the same for lockerrooms/changing rooms as they are for bathrooms.

That's because it's very difficult to find out what you actually mean by a man. No one is suggesting that a pre-operative male to female transsexual who has not yet started transitioning and therefore has a completely male body should use the female facilities.

But those aren't the ones who are in danger. It is precisely the ones like Caitlin Jenner who are otherwise completely female but have not had the final surgery which you seem to be advocating should use the male toilets. You have on many occasions now said that the line should be a 'sex change' despite the fact that there is a period of at least a year, more likely many years, in which pre-operative transsexuals have to live passing as women but without the final operation.

Not that the recently passed bills specify gender reassignment surgery. They demand that post operative transsexuals who have spent the majority of their lives successfully living in their chosen gender to use the toilets for the gender that they were born as.

(April 15, 2016 at 7:37 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I would think women are more likely to be attacked than transgender people.

You'd be wrong then.

(April 15, 2016 at 8:23 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think the goal is to "step on trans people" out of bigotry or anything like that. I think people are concerned that this may make it easier for a hetero man with a peeping fetish to pretend to be trans in order to easily gain access into women's rooms to peep. 

You're rationalising it after the fact. You are seeing a bill and then trying to make sense of it.

Yes, the goal was entirely to step on trans people. The logic behind it is all screwy and was devised by at least one man who has no respect for women's safety or dignity. And there are other examples of these law makers openly showing their bigotry towards trans people.

You have too much faith in the lawmakers.

(April 17, 2016 at 5:41 am)Mathilda Wrote: You have too much faith in the lawmakers.

Which is, as I showed with posting recent stories, entirely misplaced. These people get more often busted for sexual offenses of their own than the general population.

(April 15, 2016 at 8:40 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: No one has yet demonstrated that dressing in drag in order to sneak into a bathroom and rape a woman is any "easier" than sneaking into a woman's bathroom via any other method in order to accomplish the same thing.  In fact, I would argue such an approach is more difficult and cumbersome than if the rapist just waited for the opportune moment sans full drag.  Thoughts?  

It would be easier for a male rapist to wear a full niqab or burkha in order to gain access. Yet we don't see those banned for these reasons.

(April 15, 2016 at 8:42 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 8:40 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: No one has yet demonstrated that dressing in drag in order to sneak into a bathroom and rape a woman is any "easier" than sneaking into a woman's bathroom via any other method in order to accomplish the same thing.  In fact, I would argue such an approach is more difficult and cumbersome than if the rapist just waited for the opportune moment sans full drag.  Thoughts?  

Has anyone argued that it would be easier to dress in drag in order to sneak into a bathroom and rape a woman than any other method?

CL posted links to a few heterosexual pervs who have tried this. As far as can be made out, this is her fear.

(April 15, 2016 at 8:54 pm)Losty Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 8:51 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It's not about going into a bathroom to rape, it's about going in there to peep. Obviously it's easier to do this if the man is dressed like a woman to make people think he is trans than if he just walks in as is.

Do people really worry so much about this??? Trans women have been using women's restrooms for years and I haven't noticed any epidemic of hetero men pretending to be women for the sake of peeping.

By the way, if they wanted to do this they could do it regardless of whether or not we allow transpeople to use whatever restroom. It's not like we have a test for someone to prove their physical gender before peeing.
If someone really wants to do it they will regardless of the laws about transgender toilet usage.

Exactly. And as pointed out multiple times, America is not the only country in the world. Other countries allow trans people to use the toilets / bathrooms of their choice and CL's fears have not come to pass in those countries. I don't see why America should be an exception.

(April 15, 2016 at 8:58 pm)Sterben Wrote:         I do understand how SRS works,
...

To all who disagree with me, I consider SRS to be cosmetic.

Then you clearly do not understand the consequences of not being able to have SRS.

(April 17, 2016 at 5:52 am)Mathilda Wrote: Exactly. And as pointed out multiple times, America is not the only country in the world. Other countries allow trans people to use the toilets / bathrooms of their choice and CL's fears have not come to pass in those countries. I don't see why America should be an exception.

Far as I know there aren't any bathroom laws in Europe. Least the countries I know of. But we also don't have these ridiculous sexual offender laws that land you on a list for taking a leak in the streets. Hell, if you fuck in the streets, you pay a fine of about 100 Euros for a misdemeanour and be done with it. As has been shown last year in Croatia.

(April 15, 2016 at 8:59 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: My point is, it would be just as easy for a man NOT in drag to get INTO the rest room if they go at the right time to the right bathroom.

Probably easier for a man not in drag. They could walk right up to the rest room without being noticed and then just slip quietly in. Whereas if they are in drag they'll attract everyone's attention.