Either way, Bran's attempted assassination was not why the War of the Five Kings started.

(May 31, 2016 at 4:39 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(May 31, 2016 at 4:29 am)pocaracas Wrote: Wut?! LOL!!
I'd say the most likely person to send that particular assassin is Cersei... As always from her, a half-assed plan that went wrong.
But it would have the added bonus of incriminating her hated dwarf of a brother-killer-of-mother... and that worked!

In the books Jaime admitted to Caitlin that he and Cersei considered and rejected the idea. Later both Tyrion and Jaime independently worked out that Joffrey had sent the assassin. Not direct evidence but likely to be true.

Can't remember that detail... but could be...

However, what best way to get the scent a bit off, if not by saying... "yeah, I thought about doing that, but then thought better" ?

(May 30, 2016 at 11:28 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: That would have happened far before now though. That happens in Qarth when the Warlocks stole her dragons and hid them in the House of the Undying. I think they actually showed this in the series.

No, the Warlocks did not steal any dragons in the book - that was purely a TV thing.

(May 30, 2016 at 11:28 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: In the books, Quentin Martell plays the role that Tyrion plays with the dragons in Mereen.

Well - not exactly. All Tyrion does is take their chains off and has a "chat" with them. Quentyn unsuccessfully tries to dominate and steal one, or both of them, but the dragons have already broken/melted their chains and are able to escape the pyramid, because the Martell's men leave the gates open upon escape.

It's possible that the dragons will escape, or be released on the show, but I doubt it will be Tyrion's doing. Maybe Yara and Theon will pick up that plot? I mean - it's not like they have anything else to do, right now... However - with Daenerys being a few days away from getting back to Mereen (while in the books she only just left it), I don't think it's likely to happen at this point.

(May 31, 2016 at 5:38 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote:

(May 30, 2016 at 11:28 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: That would have happened far before now though. That happens in Qarth when the Warlocks stole her dragons and hid them in the House of the Undying. I think they actually showed this in the series.

No, the Warlocks did not steal any dragons in the book - that was purely a TV thing.

The warlocks of Qarth try to betray Dany in the House of the Undying and take the dragons, but they don't succeed, because dracarys.

(May 31, 2016 at 5:38 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote:

(May 30, 2016 at 11:28 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: In the books, Quentin Martell plays the role that Tyrion plays with the dragons in Mereen.

Well - not exactly. All Tyrion does is take their chains off and has a "chat" with them. Quentyn unsuccessfully tries to dominate and steal one, or both of them, but the dragons have already broken/melted their chains and are able to escape the pyramid, because the Martell's men leave the gates open upon escape.

It's possible that the dragons will escape, or be released on the show, but I doubt it will be Tyrion's doing. Maybe Yara and Theon will pick up that plot? I mean - it's not like they have anything else to do, right now... However - with Daenerys being a few days away from getting back to Mereen (while in the books she only just left it), I don't think it's likely to happen at this point.

I didn't mean exactly. But some of Quentyn's actions with regards to the dragons are being performed by Tyrion. Remember, Tyrion is still playing cyvasse with the Second Sons. Quentyn is presented as a gift, he attempts to provide advice about the pits, and he attempts (though he dies) to tame a dragon. Not a direct parallel, but I think the plot driving devices are similar.

I am also thinking that the Three Eyed Raven is/was Bran. It's all a loop.

(May 31, 2016 at 4:29 am)pocaracas Wrote: I'd say the most likely person to send that particular assassin is Cersei... As always from her, a half-assed plan that went wrong.
But it would have the added bonus of incriminating her hated dwarf of a brother-killer-of-mother... and that worked!

Joffrey had pretty much the same means to arrange the assassination and similar motivations to frame Tyrion for it, as Cersei did. He was also a violent, inbred psychopath, with a history of trying to impress his father, with acts of cruelty (like the kitten-incident). He'd been slapped and humiliated by Tyrion - with whom he obviously didn't get along at the best of times - for expressing indifference to the fate of Bran and grief of his family. He also hated books, and - if I recall correctly - the library was set on fire in order to facilitate the attack on Bran.

And although Cersei certainly is a moron - Joffrey is a bigger and less experienced one, so his half-assed plan would be way more likely to go wrong. Just look at what happened because of Ned Stark's "impromptu" execution - another example of boy-king taking the initiative, with lamentable consequences.

So, while it's possible Cersei planned the assassination - I think Joffrey is the more likely culprit.

(May 31, 2016 at 7:01 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote:

(May 31, 2016 at 4:29 am)pocaracas Wrote: I'd say the most likely person to send that particular assassin is Cersei... As always from her, a half-assed plan that went wrong.
But it would have the added bonus of incriminating her hated dwarf of a brother-killer-of-mother... and that worked!

Joffrey had pretty much the same means to arrange the assassination and similar motivations to frame Tyrion for it, as Cersei did. He was also a violent, inbred psychopath, with a history of trying to impress his father, with acts of cruelty (like the kitten-incident). He'd been slapped and humiliated by Tyrion - with whom he obviously didn't get along at the best of times - for expressing indifference to the fate of Bran and grief of his family. He also hated books, and - if I recall correctly - the library was set on fire in order to facilitate the attack on Bran.

And although Cersei certainly is a moron - Joffrey is a bigger and less experienced one, so his half-assed plan would be way more likely to go wrong. Just look at what happened because of Ned Stark's "impromptu" execution - another example of boy-king taking the initiative, with lamentable consequences.

So, while it's possible Cersei planned the assassination - I think Joffrey is the more likely culprit.

Joffrey's fucked up, yes... but I think Cersei had more to gain from Bran's death and Tyrion's involvement in that death.

---

Game of Molds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stq0WrmXlDs

(May 31, 2016 at 9:10 am)pocaracas Wrote: Joffrey's fucked up, yes... but I think Cersei had more to gain from Bran's death and Tyrion's involvement in that death.

That's debatable. Even if Bran lived (which seemed unlikely at the time), came out of his coma AND remembered what happened - it would still be just a word of a feverish child, against the word of a queen and her brother.  Had an assassin been caught and interrogated - his confession might prove much more troublesome. Joffrey would be much more likely to disregard potential consequences, because he was just a dumb, sadistic kid, trying to play king.

And again - Cersei had more to gain from Ned Stark's death, than Joffrey, because Stark knew about illegitimacy of her children. But she agreed to let him join the Watch, where he could still potentially share this knowledge. As far as Joffrey was concerned - Ned was defeated and his claims were untrue and unsubstantiated, there was little to gain from the man's death, at this point. But he wanted to kill somebody, I guess, to show off and test his power - and we know how it played out.

Personally I'm inclined to apply Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

(May 30, 2016 at 9:37 pm)wiploc Wrote:

(April 19, 2016 at 11:51 pm)Aroura Wrote: Argh, this is probably true!  lol

"Every time you ask when the next book will come out, George R R Martin kills another Stark."

I've heard him say this, but there are currently more living Starks than dead ones. And he'll kill most of the characters off anyway, lol, so that's just an empty threat. :p

I'm just pumped to see the Blackfish again. There are some choice book lines with him and Jaime in the Riverlands so I'm hoping we get to hear them too.