(July 6, 2016 at 1:06 am)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(July 6, 2016 at 12:44 am)bennyboy Wrote: Not really.  Nudity, in any form and at any age, is not intrinsically illegal, nor is it immoral.  The difficulty is one that you guys have decided to make up.

No, you did, benny. Listen, I understand and appreciate your point, but you specifically went out of your way to prove a point using something that you know would be provocative and against the rules. Server costs are one thing, but hosting is entirely another. Hosts have rules and liability, and if your host decides that you have violated their terms of use, it's not about cost at that point. It's about finding a new host. You were around when we switched hosts last year. The site was down for 3 days, we had endless problems porting over data/modules, kudos took like a month to come back.

Our rules protect the site from losing its hosting.

(July 6, 2016 at 12:44 am)bennyboy Wrote: I wasn't surprised that I got banned, I mean not really.  But that's not because I felt I was doing something wrong.  It's because I know there are many people in the world who are less natural-minded and liberal than I am-- I really have to see that a behavior is likely to cause real harm in order for me to demand people not engage in it.  In individual cases, like this one, I'm surprised to discover exactly what bugaboo it is that is eating at people's brains.  However, overall, I'm really never surprised to discover that people fixate on issues I consider pointless or even harmful.

I should point out that I don't debate that mods have the right to make or enforce rules, WHATEVER their nature.  It's not my site, and my membership is implicitly contingent on following those rules, whether I agree with them or not.  You could have a law against being named "bennyboy," and I sometimes think you do.  But so long as I'm considered part of this community then I will use my voice to add weight to those ideas I see sensible, and against those which I see as corrupt.  This is the only democracy to which I have access.

And in this thread, I really want to say only this:
1)  Nudity is healthy, natural, and I think it should never be sexualized.
2)  I would tend to favor expression over limitation of expression.  Whether or not I want to see breasts (or a penis, for that matter), if it was important to someone else that they be allowed to express themselves, I'd be in favor of it.  So I support the OP, and not those who were against her view, or who called her "troll," or otherwised expressed themselves negatively toward her.
3)  Being banned sucks, and it didn't need to happen to me.

We would never hold your dissent against you, at least I wouldn't. I would hope every member would be comfortable with pointing out inconsistency within the rules, or something that makes little or no sense.

Likely, we'll discuss it and either make a change or not. As for your list:

1) I agree. But this is not the ideal world. Female breasts are considered more sexual than male breasts by the majority of the population. Our rule allows for art (and always has):  "The staff will make the final decision on whether content is pornographic or not, and will take into consideration whether the content is more artistic than pornographic (e.g. depictions of Venus de Milo or Michelangelo's David are not in violation of this rule)."

2) The OP was not called a troll until she insisted that the staff was sexist and then accused us of putting you up to posting the pictures of kids in order to shut her thread down. She said you were going on a vacation anyways, and since we locked the thread for like an hour, you were the patsy in our grand design to kill the conversation, because we were so sexist we couldn't even talk about it. So that's why she was treated like an idiot. She was so intent on being the victim that she had to make it so, no matter what.

3) It does suck. It sucked to do it. In the future, please make your points with the words you can type, not with pictures of other people's naked children.

Well, before some one finishes sweeping up, turns off the lights and locks the door I'd just like to thank Steel for this.  Explains a lot.  I don't think the phase this discussion is in now is anything that needs urgently to be ended.  Really I think you are well on your way to resolution.  Maybe we're already there.  But I think misunderstandings should be easier to spot and understand as a result.  Talking doesn't always have to lead straight down the shitter.  If we avoid it to avoid stirring up more bile and hard feelings we're giving up the opportunity to work through and really get over it.  Thanks Steel.

yeabut... I didn't wanna drop it before. It takes a lot for me to want to drop a subject. Hence why it needs to die now.

(July 6, 2016 at 1:33 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: yeabut... I didn't wanna drop it before. It takes a  lot for me to want to drop a subject. Hence why it needs to die now.

Oh drop it for Christ's sake. 

(July 6, 2016 at 1:31 am)Whateverist the White Wrote: If we avoid it to avoid stirring up more bile and hard feelings we're giving up the opportunity to work through and really get over it.  Thanks Steel.

There can certainly be a discussion, within reason. A discussion does not mean one goes out of bounds to the point where the comfort level has pushed beyond the roof.

And a discussion is just that, in the end.

In the end, it is still up to the mods.

I don't personally care for the conversation to drop. Let it sizzle out on its own when everyone is sufficiently satisfied and feels they've been given the opportunity to have their feelings known. If anyone is overly bothered by it they are welcome to skip over the two threads it is being discussed in. No one is required to view or participate.

Hehehehehe.

Not dropping a conversation is something I can do.

I wanted it to drop at this point... whether I could drop it is another matter lol.

I'm amped to see where this goes.

I'm always fine, personally, for conversation to continue when there's something new and productive to say.

I don't like repetition of earlier points as if they haven't been addressed.

(July 6, 2016 at 1:50 am)robvalue Wrote: I'm always fine, personally, for conversation to continue when there's something new and productive to say.

I don't like repetition of earlier points as if they haven't been addressed.

I definitely understand the sentiment. It feels exhausting. But I wouldn't want anyone to feel like I'm trying to shut them up. I don't think a yea from now this will be AF Forums most popular thread. It will die eventually and I will sigh a sigh of relief.

To be honest, though, this topic has already sunk into the ground.

There is no more discussion to be had.