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"[a] research group recently imaged a hydrogen atom’s orbiting electron for the first time (pictured above). To do this, a new device, called a quantum microscope, was used. Just like the imaged molecules, the electron orbit is exactly as predicted. "
I don't believe either of you guys without a convoluted, flawed 'proof' that atoms exist.
Your so called 'evidence' is not good enough.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
RE: I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
November 2, 2016 at 2:17 pm
Dear atheist colleagues, thanks a lot for your presence and contribution to this my thread, "I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?"
Here, I will reproduce my proof as follows with quoting the OP:
click page 1 to see the proof in OP Mariosep Wrote:This is my proof for God existing.
1. Formulate the information of the concept of God, thus:
"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."
2. Look for instances of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.
3. We find countless examples of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.
4. From the countless instances of causation in reality, we infer to the existence of a first and ultimate cause.
5. We find that the first and ultimate cause of all instances of causation in reality corresponds to our information on the concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
6. Conclusion: God exists in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
You see, dear atheist colleagues, in the OP I am trying to lead you step by step: to come to the certainty of the existence of God in objective reality outside of concepts in our mind.
Today I will invite you instead to lead me step by step: to come to the certainty God does not exist in objective reality outside of concepts in our mind.
Dear readers here, let us all sit back and await with bated breath for our atheist colleagues: to lead us step by step, to the certainty of God not existing in objective reality outside of concepts in our mind.
(November 2, 2016 at 4:29 am)Mariosep Wrote: Dear atheist colleagues, please: I am asking you to prove the existence of atoms, in order that you will experience what and how it is to prove something to exist in objective reality outside of concepts in your mind.
You see, dear atheist colleagues, you cannot comprehend my proof of God existing unless you have experienced proving something to exist, like I suggest the existence of atoms, or if you prefer something else of your own choice.
I see you, dear atheist colleagues, to be altogether blind to the distinction
between the world in our mind of concepts, and the world outside our mind of objects which are independent of our mind and the concepts in our mind: so that if we do not exist or we lose our mind, as when a person becomes unconscious or may I say, insane, the reality of existence of everything continues to prevail in the what I call default status of things in the totality of reality which is existence.
Because of this failure to be cognizant of the distinction between the world of thoughts, concepts, imagination, etc. in our mind, and the world independent of our mind outside of our mind or may I say, brain, you can and do woefully merge them together: as to think that you are catching me in a fallacy of affirming the existence of the thing still to be proven to exist.
You see, dear atheist colleagues, you woefully or miserably conflate the enunciation of a concept for the affirmation of existence of the object corresponding to the concept in our mind - of the object.
And this concept of the object has to do with the objective existence of God, namely, that in concept God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning - mind you that is a thought, a concept, a proposition, etc., all in my mind, that is not any kind of affirmation that God already exists from the concept all by itself in our mind.
God's existence is still going to be proven with us going out to the objective reality of existence outside our mind, to look for evidence for the existence of God, evidence such as all instances of causation whereby one thing brings about the existence of another thing, for example, think or observe that we all are caused i.e. brought into existence by our parents.
And from that evidence like human procreation of fellow humans, babies, we infer to the existence of the first and ultimate cause of causes (intermediary causes), which cause of causes corresponds (careful now at this point, not to get all oblivious to the distinction between the world in our mind and the world outside our mind) to the concept of God, in our mind or my mind if you will, which concept says that in concept God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
Can you comprehend what I am telling you all the time, with my mention all the time the phrase, existence outside of concepts in our mind.
Keep attentive however, dear atheist colleagues, to the fact that without a mind and the concepts we have in our mind, we are not humans but at most robots created by computer engineers, and there are human persons who conduct themselves like robots, regrettably, owing to their rote memory of things they have been inculcated on by their master ideologues.
Hope you find this explanation to be efficacious in opening up your mind to the distinction between the world in our mind, and the world of objective reality of existence outside and independent of our mind, but we need our mind to know about the world outside our mind.
ANNEX
click page 1 to see the proof in OP Mariosep Wrote:This is my proof for God existing.
1. Formulate the information of the concept of God, thus:
"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."
2. Look for instances of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.
3. We find countless examples of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.
4. From the countless instances of causation in reality, we infer to the existence of a first and ultimate cause.
5. We find that the first and ultimate cause of all instances of causation in reality corresponds to our information on the concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
6. Conclusion: God exists in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
RE: I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
November 2, 2016 at 2:19 pm (This post was last modified: November 2, 2016 at 2:19 pm by FatAndFaithless.)
Quote:let us all sit back and await with bated breath for our atheist colleagues: to lead us step by step, to the certainty of God not existing in objective reality outside of concepts in our mind.
If you're going to strawman atheists preemptively, at least try to be subtle about it.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
November 2, 2016 at 2:32 pm
(November 2, 2016 at 2:17 pm)Mariosep Wrote: Dear atheist colleagues, thanks a lot for your presence and contribution to this my thread, "I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?"
Here, I will reproduce my proof as follows with quoting the OP:
click page 1 to see the proof in OP Mariosep Wrote:This is my proof for God existing.
1. Formulate the information of the concept of God, thus:
"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."
2. Look for instances of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.
3. We find countless examples of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.
4. From the countless instances of causation in reality, we infer to the existence of a first and ultimate cause.
5. We find that the first and ultimate cause of all instances of causation in reality corresponds to our information on the concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
6. Conclusion: God exists in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
You see, dear atheist colleagues, in the OP I am trying to lead you step by step: to come to the certainty of the existence of God in objective reality outside of concepts in our mind.
Today I will invite you instead to lead me step by step: to come to the certainty God does not exist in objective reality outside of concepts in our mind.
Dear readers here, let us all sit back and await with bated breath for our atheist colleagues: to lead us step by step, to the certainty of God not existing in objective reality outside of concepts in our mind.
(November 2, 2016 at 4:29 am)Mariosep Wrote: Dear atheist colleagues, please: I am asking you to prove the existence of atoms, in order that you will experience what and how it is to prove something to exist in objective reality outside of concepts in your mind.
You see, dear atheist colleagues, you cannot comprehend my proof of God existing unless you have experienced proving something to exist, like I suggest the existence of atoms, or if you prefer something else of your own choice.
I see you, dear atheist colleagues, to be altogether blind to the distinction
between the world in our mind of concepts, and the world outside our mind of objects which are independent of our mind and the concepts in our mind: so that if we do not exist or we lose our mind, as when a person becomes unconscious or may I say, insane, the reality of existence of everything continues to prevail in the what I call default status of things in the totality of reality which is existence.
Because of this failure to be cognizant of the distinction between the world of thoughts, concepts, imagination, etc. in our mind, and the world independent of our mind outside of our mind or may I say, brain, you can and do woefully merge them together: as to think that you are catching me in a fallacy of affirming the existence of the thing still to be proven to exist.
You see, dear atheist colleagues, you woefully or miserably conflate the enunciation of a concept for the affirmation of existence of the object corresponding to the concept in our mind - of the object.
And this concept of the object has to do with the objective existence of God, namely, that in concept God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning - mind you that is a thought, a concept, a proposition, etc., all in my mind, that is not any kind of affirmation that God already exists from the concept all by itself in our mind.
God's existence is still going to be proven with us going out to the objective reality of existence outside our mind, to look for evidence for the existence of God, evidence such as all instances of causation whereby one thing brings about the existence of another thing, for example, think or observe that we all are caused i.e. brought into existence by our parents.
And from that evidence like human procreation of fellow humans, babies, we infer to the existence of the first and ultimate cause of causes (intermediary causes), which cause of causes corresponds (careful now at this point, not to get all oblivious to the distinction between the world in our mind and the world outside our mind) to the concept of God, in our mind or my mind if you will, which concept says that in concept God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
Can you comprehend what I am telling you all the time, with my mention all the time the phrase, existence outside of concepts in our mind.
Keep attentive however, dear atheist colleagues, to the fact that without a mind and the concepts we have in our mind, we are not humans but at most robots created by computer engineers, and there are human persons who conduct themselves like robots, regrettably, owing to their rote memory of things they have been inculcated on by their master ideologues.
Hope you find this explanation to be efficacious in opening up your mind to the distinction between the world in our mind, and the world of objective reality of existence outside and independent of our mind, but we need our mind to know about the world outside our mind.
ANNEX
Omg, it hurts; it PHYSICALLY hurts! Make him stop! for the love of FSM, have mercy!
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
RE: I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
November 2, 2016 at 3:01 pm
(November 2, 2016 at 1:56 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Hopefully he is unacquainted with the Popeye Principle.
Everything's better with Olive Oyl on top?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
RE: I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
November 2, 2016 at 3:03 pm
(November 2, 2016 at 2:17 pm)Mariosep Wrote: Dear atheist colleagues, thanks a lot for your presence and contribution to this my thread, "I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?"
Here, I will reproduce my proof as follows with quoting the OP:
click page 1 to see the proof in OP Mariosep Wrote:This is my proof for God existing.
1. Formulate the information of the concept of God, thus:
"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."
2. Look for instances of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.
3. We find countless examples of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.
4. From the countless instances of causation in reality, we infer to the existence of a first and ultimate cause.
5. We find that the first and ultimate cause of all instances of causation in reality corresponds to our information on the concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
6. Conclusion: God exists in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
Hmm....nope, it still has the same, unchanged, and glaring logic issues....like affirming the consequent. Affirming the consequent, Mariosep. Affirming. The. Consequent. Affirming the consequent, affirming the consequent, affirming the consequent....
“Life is like a grapefruit. Well, it's sort of orangey-yellow and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, too. Oh, and some people have half a one for breakfast.” - Ford Prefect
RE: I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
November 2, 2016 at 3:08 pm
(November 2, 2016 at 2:17 pm)Mariosep Wrote: This is my proof for God existing.
1. Formulate the information of the concept of God, thus:
"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."
2. Look for instances of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.
3. We find countless examples of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.
4. From the countless instances of causation in reality, we infer to the existence of a first and ultimate cause.
5. We find that the first and ultimate cause of all instances of causation in reality corresponds to our information on the concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
6. Conclusion: God exists in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
You do realize that we see this list thusly, right?
1. Make some shit up to decide what kind of God I want to exist.
2. Look for evidence I am right
3. Find evidence I am right
4. Infer from the evidence that I am right that I am right
5. Find from the evidence that I am right that I am right
6. Conclude that I am right
You're making the mistake of just repeating the same thing. If we didn't get it the first hundred times what makes you think we're going to see it differently time 101. Unless, of course, you say it again ALL IN CAPS WITH EXCLAMATION POINTS!!! How could we NOT understand it if you do that?
Seriously, though, the conclusion you should be drawing here is that your first post is as crap on page 45 as it was on 1. How do you not get that concept by now?
Have you ever noticed all the drug commercials on TV lately? Why is it the side effects never include penile enlargement or super powers? Side effects may include super powers or enlarged penis which may become permanent with continued use. Stop taking Killatol immediately and consult your doctor if you experience penis enlargement of more than 3 inches, laser vision, superhuman strength, invulnerability, the ability to explode heads with your mind or time travel. Killatoll is not for everyone, especially those who already have convertibles or vehicles of ridiculous size to supplement penis size.
RE: I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
November 2, 2016 at 3:10 pm
Your "proof" failed on page one, Mariosep.
You've not only lost but proved yourself to be a liar. If your god actually does exist, I don't think it's going to be very happy with you publicly embarrassing it in this fashion. Your only recourse now is to toss your Bible in the closest dumpster, take a sledgehammer to the cross around your neck and smash it into metal shavings, say rude things about the Holy Spirit, and hope like heck that that's enough to throw Yahweh off your scent.
RE: I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
November 2, 2016 at 3:13 pm
(November 2, 2016 at 2:17 pm)Mariosep Wrote: Today I will invite you instead to lead me step by step: to come to the certainty God does not exist in objective reality outside of concepts in our mind.
No, the burden of proof is on you.
Extradordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. A sophistic chain of pseudo philosophical assumptions doesn't count.
RE: I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
November 2, 2016 at 3:15 pm
(November 2, 2016 at 2:17 pm)Mariosep Wrote: [edit]
Today I will invite you instead to lead me step by step: to come to the certainty God does not exist in objective reality outside of concepts in our mind.
Dear readers here, let us all sit back and await with bated breath for our atheist colleagues: to lead us step by step, to the certainty of God not existing in objective reality outside of concepts in our mind.
[edit]
Mario, seems that you have come to the conclusion that you can't prove your proposition, at least to our satisfaction. Now you want us to disprove something that you failed to prove. Do you even understand how absurd that thinking is?
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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