(November 16, 2016 at 4:03 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: It's truly a mystery why Pennsylvanians wouldn't vote for wiping out one of their industries and replacing it with another that doesn't actually need to be in their state. It's really convincing, the way you put it. How could they not trust such a promise?

It's truly a mystery why they'd ever think it was a good idea to build a fucking economy on Coal.  An energy source that is going to die whether they like it or not.  But no, it should totally be put on life support so we can speed up this whole global warming thing.  Who wants breathable air?

Look who's here! It's Divinity kicking ass!

Maybe those folks are simply untrainable to do anything else in society?

I don't really beleive that, but I'm pretty damn sick of these lazy asses complaining how the economy has left them behind. Go get an actual useful skill that somebody needs. Maybe we should put telephone switchboard operators, computer.punchcard runners, or vacuum tube assemblers back to work...

I'm not even 50 and I'm in my fourth careeer due to progress. Do I want to go back programming reports on an IBM AS/400? No.... Do these people really want to mine coal?

Boggles the mind

(November 15, 2016 at 8:44 pm)Maelstrom Wrote:

(November 15, 2016 at 8:43 pm)A Theist Wrote: There's a thread on the forum somewhere about 6 million voters who stayed home on Election Day. I personally want to thank you, and the other eligible voters who stayed home, for helping to elect the guy that I voted for, Donald Trump.

You're welcome, but we'll see if you're still thanking me later.    

And that is what we will have to wait for. 

It'll be like one of those movies where a mob of unidentified people goes apeshit and commits some horrible crime.  People will first distance themselves from the event, and then a few years down the road outright deny they ever had anything to do with it. Or you can just call it The W. Factor.

---

(November 16, 2016 at 5:18 pm)Kosh Wrote: Maybe those folks are simply untrainable to do anything else in society?

I don't really beleive that, but I'm pretty damn sick of these lazy asses complaining how the economy has left them behind.  Go get an actual useful skill that somebody needs.  Maybe we should put telephone switchboard operators, computer.punchcard runners, or vacuum tube assemblers back to work...

I'm not even 50 and I'm in my fourth careeer due to progress.  Do I want to go back programming reports on an IBM AS/400?  No....  Do these people really want to mine coal?

Boggles the mind

Are you suggesting they pull themselves up by the bootstraps/don't seek government handouts/become rugged individualists/make their own way? 

Because that's what they've been telling those lazy, shiftless minorities to do for all these years. Or would that force them to admit that the government has legitimate role in the quality of life of its citizens? 

What a conundrum for them... well, it would be if they thought about it for half a second. But what the fuck do you tell people who believe Scalia was murdered or that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim? 

It's all so confusing.

(November 16, 2016 at 5:02 pm)Divinity Wrote:

(November 16, 2016 at 4:03 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: It's truly a mystery why Pennsylvanians wouldn't vote for wiping out one of their industries and replacing it with another that doesn't actually need to be in their state. It's really convincing, the way you put it. How could they not trust such a promise?

It's truly a mystery why they'd ever think it was a good idea to build a fucking economy on Coal.  An energy source that is going to die whether they like it or not.  But no, it should totally be put on life support so we can speed up this whole global warming thing.  Who wants breathable air?

Why do people support it so much?  Well, little people support it because their jobs depend on coal and oil and natural gas and other fossil fuels.  But that isn't why politicians support it.

Politicians support the coal industry for the same reason they support anything: their financial backers tell them to support it.  Their campaigns are financed by fossil fuel industries; have been for years.  If they step out of line, if they try to take money from coal industries and put it elsewhere, they'll suddenly find themselves unable to raise enough money to run an effective campaign.  But the problem with this is, they're working to put money in the pockets of the company CEO, not the workers of the company.

And this gets to the root of the problem with politics in general: both sides are more worried about money than they are people.  I mean, I understand WHY they're worried about money, but that doesn't mean I like it.  Anyone read 1984?  I've been re-reading it lately and one of the ideas in there has been coming to mind a lot this election: We have an upper class that's in power, a middle class that wants to be in power and a lower class that just wants everyone to have a shot to make it.  The middle class courts the lower class to gain power, they preach about how they'll help the lower class, but when they're in power all they do is try to solidify their position at top.  Meanwhile, the old upper class (which has become the current middle class) begins courting the middle class in an attempt to retake the spot at the top of the hill.  And the cycle continues, endlessly.  I guess the underlying concern for all of this is how to fix the problem?

(November 16, 2016 at 5:29 pm)Opoponax Wrote:

(November 15, 2016 at 8:44 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: You're welcome, but we'll see if you're still thanking me later.    

And that is what we will have to wait for. 

It'll be like one of those movies where a mob of unidentified people goes apeshit and commits some horrible crime.  People will first distance themselves from the event, and then a few years down the road outright deny they ever had anything to do with it. Or you can just call it The W. Factor.

---

(November 16, 2016 at 5:18 pm)Kosh Wrote: Maybe those folks are simply untrainable to do anything else in society?

I don't really beleive that, but I'm pretty damn sick of these lazy asses complaining how the economy has left them behind.  Go get an actual useful skill that somebody needs.  Maybe we should put telephone switchboard operators, computer.punchcard runners, or vacuum tube assemblers back to work...

I'm not even 50 and I'm in my fourth careeer due to progress.  Do I want to go back programming reports on an IBM AS/400?  No....  Do these people really want to mine coal?

Boggles the mind

Are you suggesting they pull themselves up by the bootstraps/don't seek government handouts/become rugged individualists/make their own way? 

Because that's what they've been telling those lazy, shiftless minorities to do for all these years. Or would that force them to admit that the government has legitimate role in the quality of life of its citizens? 

What a conundrum for them... well, it would be if they thought about it for half a second. But what the fuck do you tell people who believe Scalia was murdered or that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim? 

It's all so confusing.

Exactly Opo..  That's been the republicans calling card for years.  Now they are mad because they "think" the economy has left them behind.  Someone needs to open a uranium mine.  I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the Trump voters are financially better off today than they were 8 years ago, but facts don't play into this at all.

(November 16, 2016 at 5:46 pm)TaraJo Wrote:

(November 16, 2016 at 5:02 pm)Divinity Wrote: It's truly a mystery why they'd ever think it was a good idea to build a fucking economy on Coal.  An energy source that is going to die whether they like it or not.  But no, it should totally be put on life support so we can speed up this whole global warming thing.  Who wants breathable air?

Why do people support it so much?  Well, little people support it because their jobs depend on coal and oil and natural gas and other fossil fuels.  But that isn't why politicians support it.

Politicians support the coal industry for the same reason they support anything: their financial backers tell them to support it.  Their campaigns are financed by fossil fuel industries; have been for years.  If they step out of line, if they try to take money from coal industries and put it elsewhere, they'll suddenly find themselves unable to raise enough money to run an effective campaign.  But the problem with this is, they're working to put money in the pockets of the company CEO, not the workers of the company.

And this gets to the root of the problem with politics in general: both sides are more worried about money than they are people.  I mean, I understand WHY they're worried about money, but that doesn't mean I like it.  Anyone read 1984?  I've been re-reading it lately and one of the ideas in there has been coming to mind a lot this election: We have an upper class that's in power, a middle class that wants to be in power and a lower class that just wants everyone to have a shot to make it.  The middle class courts the lower class to gain power, they preach about how they'll help the lower class, but when they're in power all they do is try to solidify their position at top.  Meanwhile, the old upper class (which has become the current middle class) begins courting the middle class in an attempt to retake the spot at the top of the hill.  And the cycle continues, endlessly.  I guess the underlying concern for all of this is how to fix the problem?

Fixing the problem is easy.  More emphasis on education and job retraining.  I'm not just talking about college.  I'm talking about tech, trade, and apprenticeships as well. 

The problem is that education of any kind is way down the list of what's important to many people.  I would argue that it's way down the list in terms of importance by the people who need it the most. 

People are more concerned with who is getting welfare, who is getting married, who is having or (not having babies), who is walking across the border, who is going to take their guns, who is or isn't going to church, who is using which bathroom, and somewhere around #200 (sarcasm) is quality affordable education.

My wife spent six years going to college to become a teacher.  She was licensed to teach pre-k through sixth grade.  She's an RN for 20 years.  Guess why?

(November 16, 2016 at 5:02 pm)Divinity Wrote:

(November 16, 2016 at 4:03 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: It's truly a mystery why Pennsylvanians wouldn't vote for wiping out one of their industries and replacing it with another that doesn't actually need to be in their state. It's really convincing, the way you put it. How could they not trust such a promise?

It's truly a mystery why they'd ever think it was a good idea to build a fucking economy on Coal.  An energy source that is going to die whether they like it or not.  But no, it should totally be put on life support so we can speed up this whole global warming thing.  Who wants breathable air?

Is this response just from emotion or do you really think that, back in the industrial age, when the coal industry began, when coal was the most abundant and available source of energy, that they stopped to think, "Hey I wonder if this will run out?" or "I wonder if we burn to much of this will it hurt us?". 

Yeah, it's a left over, soon to be obsolete industry. It needs to be phased out. Thinking that it will go away tomorrow, next year, within 10 years, is not reality. We need a replacement for it and green energy at this point won't fill the bill. May never completely fill the bill.

(November 16, 2016 at 5:02 pm)Divinity Wrote: It's truly a mystery why they'd ever think it was a good idea to build a fucking economy on Coal.  An energy source that is going to die whether they like it or not.  But no, it should totally be put on life support so we can speed up this whole global warming thing.  Who wants breathable air?

Who wants breathable air? People who otherwise have a standard of living acceptable to them. If you have to choose between paying the rent or buying food, breathable air isn't that important to you.

(November 16, 2016 at 10:31 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Is this response just from emotion or do you really think that, back in the industrial age, when the coal industry began, when coal was the most abundant and available source of energy, that they stopped to think, "Hey I wonder if this will run out?" or "I wonder if we burn to much of this will it hurt us?". 

Yeah, it's a left over, soon to be obsolete industry. It needs to be phased out. Thinking that it will go away tomorrow, next year, within 10 years, is not reality. We need a replacement for it and green energy at this point won't fill the bill. May never completely fill the bill.

No, I think today's politicians have convinced the electorate that they can build an economy on fucking coal.  Which is fucking dying whether people fucking like it or not.  And it's going away sooner than most people think.  People want jobs, but apparently they need to be in coal or manufacturing, because flying zebras forbid that they have jobs that *gasp* might not HAVE to be there.  You know... like just about everywhere else.  

Putting it on life support is just going to fuck over future generations in terms of jobs and in terms of environment.  But the politicians don't give a flying fuck because all most people give a damn about is 'me, me, me.  Will this effect me?"