(December 5, 2016 at 4:07 pm)Shell B Wrote: I don't care what kind of thing it is. It might be *news* to me because I'm from the U.S. so it's more likely that I would know the victim, but I don't find their lives to be more important. That's not a human thing to do. If you stuck an American and a Syrian in front of me and had a gun to both their heads, I would not care for the American more than the Syrian.

Yes, you would. You would likely care for a woman more than a man. A child more than an adult. An acquaintance more than a stranger. An American more than a Syrian.

How did this go from "I'm afraid of refugees" to "I only care about my own kind?" Waitaminute, I think I see it...

(December 6, 2016 at 7:25 am)alpha male Wrote:

(December 5, 2016 at 4:07 pm)Shell B Wrote: I don't care what kind of thing it is. It might be *news* to me because I'm from the U.S. so it's more likely that I would know the victim, but I don't find their lives to be more important. That's not a human thing to do. If you stuck an American and a Syrian in front of me and had a gun to both their heads, I would not care for the American more than the Syrian.

Yes, you would. You would likely care for a woman more than a man. A child more than an adult. An acquaintance more than a stranger. An American more than a Syrian.

A child more than an adult, probably. An acquaintance more than a stranger, definitely. An American more than a Syrian? Nope. I couldn't even tell the difference at a glance. You're projecting your moral shortcomings onto me. Just because you think invisible borders make people more important doesn't mean the rest of the world does. I love my country. I love its mountains, oceans, Great Lakes, national parks, tenuous grasp on democracy . . . don't get me wrong. I just don't like any American strangers more than any other stranger out there, not without some background information to sway me. Think what you want, but people like me clearly don't think like people like you, as evidence by the fact that I'm okay with taking a risk to save refugees.

(December 6, 2016 at 10:44 am)Shell B Wrote: A child more than an adult, probably. An acquaintance more than a stranger, definitely. An American more than a Syrian? Nope. I couldn't even tell the difference at a glance. You're projecting your moral shortcomings onto me. Just because you think invisible borders make people more important doesn't mean the rest of the world does.

The fact that the world is full of invisible borders, and that we have words like refugee and immigrant, shows that the world does indeed think that way. Read up on genetic similarity theory.

Genetic similarity theory has no place in moral reasoning. See naturalistic fallacy.

(December 6, 2016 at 11:03 am)alpha male Wrote: The fact that the world is full of invisible borders, and that we have words like refugee and immigrant, shows that the world does indeed think that way.

Didn't say the world doesn't. Besides, those invisible borders don't say shit about the humanity of people on either side and they serve a ton of important purposes that don't involve thinking your folk are better than their folk. So, having words like refugee and immigrant really doesn't say shit about whether people care more if refugees die than if domestic people die. You keep asserting that I have feelings I don't have and then using shite arguments like this to back it up. "The world says refugee, so you must like your neighbors more than you like people from other countries." What?

Quote:Read up on genetic similarity theory.

No. You can think all you want about how people behave, but you don't know me well enough at all to assume how I will behave. You'd like to think everyone wants to keep refugees out like you do, but it's not true. I'm married to an immigrant. I'm descended from immigrants. They're all just different folk from different places, right? Why would I feel different about refugees? Also, it's gross that you'd rather leave people to die than take a little risk.

(December 6, 2016 at 11:42 am)Shell B Wrote:

(December 6, 2016 at 11:03 am)alpha male Wrote: The fact that the world is full of invisible borders, and that we have words like refugee and immigrant, shows that the world does indeed think that way.

Didn't say the world doesn't. Besides, those invisible borders don't say shit about the humanity of people on either side and they serve a ton of important purposes that don't involve thinking your folk are better than their folk. So, having words like refugee and immigrant really doesn't say shit about whether people care more if refugees die than if domestic people die. You keep asserting that I have feelings I don't have and then using shite arguments like this to back it up. "The world says refugee, so you must like your neighbors more than you like people from other countries." What?

Quote:Read up on genetic similarity theory.

No. You can think all you want about how people behave, but you don't know me well enough at all to assume how I will behave. You'd like to think everyone wants to keep refugees out like you do, but it's not true. I'm married to an immigrant. I'm descended from immigrants. They're all just different folk from different places, right? Why would I feel different about refugees? Also, it's gross that you'd rather leave people to die than take a little risk.

Quote:it's gross that you'd rather leave people to die than take a little risk.

Indeed classic poison M&M's fallacy

Yeah, man. It's not that I put the blame on victims at all, but if we're worried that rape might go up, let's be on the lookout for it more. Let's protect ourselves against it more instead of leaving people in the shit because they're a different race, gender or creed. Let's tell our people, "Hey, there may or might not be criminals coming in with these migrants. Let's look out for each other and for them because there are criminals here too."

(December 6, 2016 at 7:25 am)alpha male Wrote:

(December 5, 2016 at 4:07 pm)Shell B Wrote: I don't care what kind of thing it is. It might be *news* to me because I'm from the U.S. so it's more likely that I would know the victim, but I don't find their lives to be more important. That's not a human thing to do. If you stuck an American and a Syrian in front of me and had a gun to both their heads, I would not care for the American more than the Syrian.

Yes, you would. You would likely care for a woman more than a man. A child more than an adult. An acquaintance more than a stranger. An American more than a Syrian.

I disagree with this statement, but that is neither here nor there.

You question was, at least how I understood it, about why would you value the two lives equally.  Not a question about how behavior actually manifests itself.

(December 6, 2016 at 7:25 am)alpha male Wrote: Yes, you would. You would likely care for a woman more than a man. A child more than an adult. An acquaintance more than a stranger. An American more than a Syrian.

Who's you? You, as in you? Or you as in we? Which I strongly dispute. I don't value any life higher than the other. If someone came knocking on my door, in mortal danger, I don't give a shit what kind of life they are. They're in need of help.

Goes to show that christian morality provides for a different standpoint. My own morality doesn't follow nationality, gender, age or race.