(April 6, 2017 at 4:14 am)Little Rik Wrote: Actually is the atheistic logic that is pointless.    

My logic works like this Ace..........by realizing that the material world doesn't offer any real progress the intelligent and smart person would automatically look within while the fool would keep on going around and around hoping that sooner or later the things turn around his way.
That is a gambler attitude not the smart and intelligent attitude.
Forget whether you may or may not find God by looking within.
The important thing is to try something else once you realize that the old way doesn't work.
This is LOGIC Ace.  

How exactly does this relate to being an atheist?

(April 5, 2017 at 10:39 am)Crossless1 Wrote:

(April 5, 2017 at 6:30 am)Little Rik Wrote: Very good Cross.  

Now that I found in you the smart and intelligent person if you don't mind I ask you to produce evidence that
when the body die also the consciousness die.  
We all know how clever you are.  
Please Cross help LR to understand.
Give LR the evidence that the consciousness die when the body die.  
Please.  

It's not my job to falsify your unfalsifiable beliefs. As for your favorite hobby horse, NDEs, Jor has dismantled you on that point in post after post and thread upon thread. The emptiness of your claims is evident to anyone who bothers to read it -- except you, of course. Find someone else to play. You're a bore.

Jor has dismantled you on that point in post after post and thread upon thread............

Eh, listen son..........no more funny mushrooms today ok?

---

(April 6, 2017 at 5:17 am)AceBoogie Wrote:

(April 6, 2017 at 4:14 am)Little Rik Wrote: Actually is the atheistic logic that is pointless.    

My logic works like this Ace..........by realizing that the material world doesn't offer any real progress the intelligent and smart person would automatically look within while the fool would keep on going around and around hoping that sooner or later the things turn around his way.
That is a gambler attitude not the smart and intelligent attitude.
Forget whether you may or may not find God by looking within.
The important thing is to try something else once you realize that the old way doesn't work.
This is LOGIC Ace.  

How exactly does this relate to being an atheist?

Easy Ace.
Atheists keep on relying on science (physical science) to demonstrate that the things works the correct way so by relying on a science that can not possibly bring permanent peace of mind and bliss atheism doesn't follow logic.
Logic is when you follow or at least you make your very best to follow a path that works but atheists
instead keep on relying on something that can not lead to peace of mind.  

(April 6, 2017 at 5:20 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(April 5, 2017 at 10:39 am)Crossless1 Wrote: It's not my job to falsify your unfalsifiable beliefs. As for your favorite hobby horse, NDEs, Jor has dismantled you on that point in post after post and thread upon thread. The emptiness of your claims is evident to anyone who bothers to read it -- except you, of course. Find someone else to play. You're a bore.

Jor has dismantled you on that point in post after post and thread upon thread............

Eh, listen son..........no more funny mushrooms today ok?

---

(April 6, 2017 at 5:17 am)AceBoogie Wrote: How exactly does this relate to being an atheist?

Easy Ace.
Atheists keep on relying on science (physical science) to demonstrate that the things works the correct way so by relying on a science that can not possibly bring permanent peace of mind and bliss atheism doesn't follow logic.
Logic is when you follow or at least you make your very best to follow a path that works but atheists
instead keep on relying on something that can not lead to peace of mind.  

Excuse me Ace Ventura Pet Apology, but where do you get the stupid idea that atheists cant have peace of mind? Because we question social norms? Because we don't blindly swallow old myths? There is no such thing as a utopia "Ace". Saying that does not make us fatalistic or pessimistic. This is the typical tactic of the theist, when they cant make an argument they resort to painting atheists as having emotional problems.

 You rely on science too, otherwise why are you using a computer? You rely on science too, otherwise don't see a doctor when you get sick. And what makes you stupidly think all atheists care about is science? You do know there is a media and arts section of this website? I write poetry too myself. 

For your information nobody I would call sane should or would claim their lives are 100% perfect 100% of the time. All humans have ups and downs in their lives, theists as well, we never claimed we are perfect. We do think your claims suck yes and? That does not make us bad or evil. It might be for you something think about instead of falsely assuming our intent here.

(April 6, 2017 at 5:20 am)Little Rik Wrote: Easy Ace.
Atheists keep on relying on science (physical science) to demonstrate that the things works the correct way so by relying on a science that can not possibly bring permanent peace of mind and bliss atheism doesn't follow logic.
Logic is when you follow or at least you make your very best to follow a path that works but atheists
instead keep on relying on something that can not lead to peace of mind.  

The hell does peace of mind have to do with logic?

(April 6, 2017 at 4:14 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(April 5, 2017 at 5:59 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: It's a simple fact, either NDEs are all real, or they're all hallucinatory.  You don't get to say that some are real, while some are not.  They are all the same type of event.  They're either ALL real, or they're ALL false.  You don't get to pick and choose and say that while a few are clearly hallucinatory, these others over here are clearly real.  Since there are documented NDEs that are clearly hallucinatory, the only logical conclusion is that they are all hallucinatory.  What you touted as evidence is actually nothing of the sort.  Just a bunch of hallucinatory experiences.

And with that, your so called "evidence" vanishes in a poof of smoke.  And since you have no other credible evidence, your entire worldview rests on nothing but dogma.




You've just been given evidence to the contrary.  So much for your "claim."

That is a load o'crap yog.

It is a fact that we are all different therefore God can not possibly show Him-Herself (no sex) in the same way to
everybody.
We carry different karma so the help that God give to one can not be the same to somebody else.
There are different stages of samadhi or bliss.
Why should we all experience the same level of bliss when someone deserve more or less than other people?

That is nothing but fairy tales.  It's an ad hoc rationalization for why there are hallucinatory features in people's NDEs.  God or not God is what is at issue here.  You can't use what you hope to prove with these hallucinatory experiences to explain the hallucinatory experience.  That's simply begging the question.  Your answer doesn't come close to explaining why there are imaginary things inside people's NDE experiences.  The simplest answer is that the entire NDE is imaginary.  That's parsimony.  Not this made up ad hoc shit that you pulled from your ass. a) You have no way of knowing this, and b) it puts the veracity of the whole experience in doubt.  If a woman can imagine herself wearing long johns, why can't she imagine all the rest?  Your answer is a kind of "trust me, the two things are different."  Well no, they aren't.  If the long johns are made up, so is the rest of it.

(April 6, 2017 at 4:14 am)Little Rik Wrote: Your problem yog is that you go around with blinkers on your eyes.

No, I don't.  Your problem is you make up bullshit stories that don't half answer the question.

(April 6, 2017 at 4:14 am)Little Rik Wrote: One more problem yog.
Hallucinations happen when the brain is alive or not yet dead while NDEs come when the brain is dead.
Most of your examples do not state whether the guy was alive or dead at the time when the vision or the NDE happen so
it is impossible to know whether the people hallucinated or they had an NDE.

I knew that you would try this line of bullshit.  While I'm happy to see you so readily abandon your former claims about how NDEs can't be hallucinations because they're so vivid and real, the fact is that this is irrelevant back-pedaling in the face of a failure of your argument.  Whether the brain is dead or not, and whether hallucinations can occur under such circumstances, is only settled by the experiences themselves.  Here you're trying to make an arbitrary distinction between "real NDEs" and hallucinations based on your guesses about what happens when a patient flatlines.  That's just speculation.  What we do know is that people have real, vivid, hallucinatory experiences complete with OBEs and lights at the end of the tunnel, and ALL THE DETAILS are imaginary.  Trying to separate them out into dead and not dead is just another failed attempt on your part to introduce meaningless distinctions.  The experiences are the same, therefore the process is the same. We don't have NDEs that are real AND an additional category of NDEs that are imaginary. There's just one category, and it's hallucinations.

(April 6, 2017 at 4:14 am)Little Rik Wrote: One more failing Yog.
NDEs do net necessary come with total bliss.
Take the case of Storm.
In the beginning Storm experienced a terrible feeling like hell to then go through a stage of pure bliss.
Why is that so?
God give these experiences to teach a lesson as well.
In this case Storm had to learn that by living like an idiot he was doing wrong so by see how bad he would feel in the real reality once his body die he learn not to do those bad things again.
Only after that God let him experience the bliss so many of your examples in which people experience
difficult situations may well be lessons that these people have to learn.

This is just more irrelevant crap which doesn't explain why people have hallucinatory features in their NDEs.  It's just a load of stalling crap and is based on nothing but dogma.  Look, it's real simple.  I'll show you:

1. EITHER all NDEs are real OR all NDEs are false;                 (law of parsimony)
2. IF some NDEs are hallucinations, THEN all NDEs are hallucinations;  (by 1)
3. Some NDEs are hallucinations;                                       (previous post)
4. Therefore all NDEs are hallucinations                               (by 2 and 3)

You wanted logic?  You got logic.  Now answer the argument or don't.  No more of these fairy tale whinings about "well God would do this" or "God would do that" -- you are not God, and your guesses about what God would do are irrelevant and are the worst kind of ad hoc bullshit.  Answer the argument or don't.

(April 6, 2017 at 4:14 am)Little Rik Wrote: In other words.........................FAIL ONCE AGAIN YOG.  

The only failure here is your failure to come to terms with reality.

---

(April 6, 2017 at 4:14 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(April 5, 2017 at 4:07 pm)AceBoogie Wrote: So...

1. Materialistic endeavors cannot lead to permanent happiness
2. Therefore happiness must come from within.
3. Therefore god.

This is logic?

Not only do you not offer any new arguments... you're not even really offering any argument at all.

This thread is pointless.

Actually is the atheistic logic that is pointless.    

My logic works like this Ace..........by realizing that the material world doesn't offer any real progress the intelligent and smart person would automatically look within while the fool would keep on going around and around hoping that sooner or later the things turn around his way.
That is a gambler attitude not the smart and intelligent attitude.
Forget whether you may or may not find God by looking within.
The important thing is to try something else once you realize that the old way doesn't work.
This is LOGIC Ace.  

Sure, don't just stand there. DO SOMETHING! The problem with this is that some things are helpful. Some things are not. And some problems have no solution, so "just do anything" is a waste of time. The wise person is the one who realizes that the quest for permanent peace of mind is a pipe dream, and that the only real solution is to struggle for what meaning is available in this life, not sitting around meditating on a mantra given to you by a long dead con man. Your NDE evidence is crap. And your Yoga is a lie. It can't deliver permanent happiness because nothing can. And saying "do something, anything" is a pointless distraction to the real problems people face. Go ahead and waste your life in pointless yoga. Quit telling other people it's the way to permanent peace of mind. You don't have it, and you've never known anyone else to have it either. All you are doing is making up lies about something you don't know shit about.

If an atheist is rich, they get called greedy. If we are poor or liberals we get called lazy or communists. You do know that "atheist" only refers to "off". It is not a political party or class, or a clinical diagnosis. There are atheists in all classes who vote for both parties. Some of us do have mental heath issues, but not all of us. Just like theists can be in all classes and vote for both parties, and just like atheists, theists can also have mental health issues. 

Do not bring up the "peace of mind" crap, that is your passive aggressive way of trying to emotionally black male us into backing off. Nobody forced you to be on this website. This is about your bad use of logic. Fooling oneself into believing in fictional utopias certainly can bring many comfort, but a lie is a lie, no matter how comforting you want it to be.

Someone here quoted me, but they're on my ignore list. Oh well. I guess it couldn't have been too important.

(April 6, 2017 at 7:43 am)Brian37 Wrote: Excuse me Ace Ventura Pet Apology, but where do you get the stupid idea that atheists cant have peace of mind? Because we question social norms? Because we don't blindly swallow old myths? There is no such thing as a utopia "Ace". Saying that does not make us fatalistic or pessimistic. This is the typical tactic of the theist, when they cant make an argument they resort to painting atheists as having emotional problems.

You rely on science too, otherwise why are you using a computer? You rely on science too, otherwise don't see a doctor when you get sick. And what makes you stupidly think all atheists care about is science? You do know there is a media and arts section of this website? I write poetry too myself. 

For your information nobody I would call sane should or would claim their lives are 100% perfect 100% of the time. All humans have ups and downs in their lives, theists as well, we never claimed we are perfect. We do think your claims suck yes and? That does not make us bad or evil. It might be for you something think about instead of falsely assuming our intent here.

Whhhhhhhoooo, whhhhhhhhoooooo whhhhhooo son slow down with your terrible picture.

I never said that theists are perfect and atheists are not.
Nothing to do with that.
Even theists can be dicks.
We have seen pedophile priests we have seen theists killing innocent people and tons of evil even from theists.
My post instead was related to something totally different.
It was all about the stupidity to follow a way of life that can not bring peace of mind such as the materialistic attitude that most atheists follow.  
The fact that we humans keep on doing the same thing time and time again clearly means that such a thing can not possibly satisfy us 100%.
It is also a fact that man (man and woman of course) hunger is unlimited but materialism being limited by nature is obviously be unable to satisfy this hunger.
But here we come to the stupidity.
Man is not only made of flesh.
Man characteristics are trifarious which means that they are facing in three different directions.
The physical the mental and the spiritual so by worry only about the physical or mental and forget about the spiritual people fail in the search for peace of mind.

When somebody tell me that they got enough peace of mind as they are without worrying about the spiritual aspect I know that they are kidding themselves.
It is just not possible.
It is like to feed only two horses out of three and pretend that the cart pull by three horses go straight.  

---

(April 6, 2017 at 9:24 am)Jesster Wrote: Someone here quoted me, but they're on my ignore list. Oh well. I guess it couldn't have been too important.

Gee Jes.  

That is a terrible thing.  

Now that I know that I am on your ignore list my life is a complete disaster.  

I don't think I will be able to sleep again thinking about that.  

Will you please reconsider your decision?  

Please Jes help LR to get out this atrocious situation.  

Please.  

---

(April 6, 2017 at 7:45 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(April 6, 2017 at 5:20 am)Little Rik Wrote: Easy Ace.
Atheists keep on relying on science (physical science) to demonstrate that the things works the correct way so by relying on a science that can not possibly bring permanent peace of mind and bliss atheism doesn't follow logic.
Logic is when you follow or at least you make your very best to follow a path that works but atheists
instead keep on relying on something that can not lead to peace of mind.  

The hell does peace of mind have to do with logic?

You follow logic if you follow your nature Gran.
Man nature is Trifarious (see my previous post) so by not satisfy all 3 aspect of your nature you do not follow logic.  

(April 6, 2017 at 7:50 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(April 6, 2017 at 4:14 am)Little Rik Wrote:

Quote:That is a load o'crap yog.

It is a fact that we are all different therefore God can not possibly show Him-Herself (no sex) in the same way to
everybody.
We carry different karma so the help that God give to one can not be the same to somebody else.
There are different stages of samadhi or bliss.
Why should we all experience the same level of bliss when someone deserve more or less than other people?

Quote:That is nothing but fairy tales.  It's an ad hoc rationalization for why there are hallucinatory features in people's NDEs.  God or not God is what is at issue here.  You can't use what you hope to prove with these hallucinatory experiences to explain the hallucinatory experience.  That's simply begging the question.  Your answer doesn't come close to explaining why there are imaginary things inside people's NDE experiences.  The simplest answer is that the entire NDE is imaginary.  That's parsimony.  Not this made up ad hoc shit that you pulled from your ass. a) You have no way of knowing this, and b) it puts the veracity of the whole experience in doubt.  If a woman can imagine herself wearing long johns, why can't she imagine all the rest?  Your answer is a kind of "trust me, the two things are different."  Well no, they aren't.  If the long johns are made up, so is the rest of it.

You are guessing Yog.
You wouldn't know whether an experience is a real NDE that happen when the consciousness separate from the dead body-brain or an hallucination that happen when the brain is still alive and the consciousness being stuck in a sick brain react as she can producing an hallucination beside even real NDEs can produce feelings that some people relate to hallucination such as the case with Storm and in his first approach to his NDE in which he is shown the mental hell that he would feel if he continue to behave like a dick.
Some people in their NDE could mainly experience the bad side given as a lesson and very little of the good side or the bliss part.

Quote:One more problem yog.
Hallucinations happen when the brain is alive or not yet dead while NDEs come when the brain is dead.
Most of your examples do not state whether the guy was alive or dead at the time when the vision or the NDE happen so
it is impossible to know whether the people hallucinated or they had an NDE.

Quote:I knew that you would try this line of bullshit.  While I'm happy to see you so readily abandon your former claims about how NDEs can't be hallucinations because they're so vivid and real, the fact is that this is irrelevant back-pedaling in the face of a failure of your argument.  Whether the brain is dead or not, and whether hallucinations can occur under such circumstances, is only settled by the experiences themselves.  Here you're trying to make an arbitrary distinction between "real NDEs" and hallucinations based on your guesses about what happens when a patient flatlines.  That's just speculation.  What we do know is that people have real, vivid, hallucinatory experiences complete with OBEs and lights at the end of the tunnel, and ALL THE DETAILS are imaginary.  Trying to separate them out into dead and not dead is just another failed attempt on your part to introduce meaningless distinctions.  The experiences are the same, therefore the process is the same.  We don't have NDEs that are real AND an additional category of NDEs that are imaginary.  There's just one category, and it's hallucinations.

One more guess Yog.
You presume that I said that some NDEs can be imaginary.
I never said that.
Slow down with your wild guessing and keep your mind on facts.  

(April 6, 2017 at 4:14 am)Little Rik Wrote: One more failing Yog.
NDEs do net necessary come with total bliss.
Take the case of Storm.
In the beginning Storm experienced a terrible feeling like hell to then go through a stage of pure bliss.
Why is that so?
God give these experiences to teach a lesson as well.
In this case Storm had to learn that by living like an idiot he was doing wrong so by see how bad he would feel in the real reality once his body die he learn not to do those bad things again.
Only after that God let him experience the bliss so many of your examples in which people experience
difficult situations may well be lessons that these people have to learn.

Quote:This is just more irrelevant crap which doesn't explain why people have hallucinatory features in their NDEs.  It's just a load of stalling crap and is based on nothing but dogma.  Look, it's real simple.  I'll show you:

1. EITHER all NDEs are real OR all NDEs are false;                 (law of parsimony)
2. IF some NDEs are hallucinations, THEN all NDEs are hallucinations;  (by 1)
3. Some NDEs are hallucinations;                                       (previous post)
4. Therefore all NDEs are hallucinations                               (by 2 and 3)

You wanted logic?  You got logic.  Now answer the argument or don't.  No more of these fairy tale whinings about "well God would do this" or "God would do that" -- you are not God, and your guesses about what God would do are irrelevant and are the worst kind of ad hoc bullshit.  Answer the argument or don't.

This Yog is all intellectual extravaganza.
All bullshit.
First of all you got to make sure that an experience is a real NDE or an hallucination.
After that you can draw your conclusion but you do not do that.
You guess and guess that one is the other and the other is something else.
In this way you end up in a mental labyrinth from which you can't get out.  

Quote:Sure, don't just stand there.  DO SOMETHING!  The problem with this is that some things are helpful. Some things are not.  And some problems have no solution, so "just do anything" is a waste of time.  The wise person is the one who realizes that the quest for permanent peace of mind is a pipe dream, and that the only real solution is to struggle for what meaning is available in this life, not sitting around meditating on a mantra given to you by a long dead con man.  Your NDE evidence is crap.  And your Yoga is a lie.  It can't deliver permanent happiness because nothing can.  And saying "do something, anything" is a pointless distraction to the real problems people face.  Go ahead and waste your life in pointless yoga. Quit telling other people it's the way to permanent peace of mind.  You don't have it, and you've never known anyone else to have it either.  All you are doing is making up lies about something you don't know shit about.

Gee, now you say that you are able to read my mind and knowing that my yoga does not produce any
bliss and peace of mind.
You know what Yog?
You could make a lot of money as mind reading.
You should try.
Just go in your local shopping center and start this business.
Get rich Yog.  

Logic only explains how A goes to B

The Theists argue that because the Atheist's can't define logic, we are wrong, therefore God, when the Theists can't even explain what A and B is in the first place.

According to you, logic is only logic when the A and B goes along with your definitions.