I have been wondering if the progress of society (excluding science), is just the natural course of development? 

What I mean is that no group of politicians, will, or ideology will make society progress, but the natural instinct of humans to avoid pain. In history, the most important changes have been because of revolutions and wars. Not because a group of politicians sat down and made the world a better place.

It seems to me politics are only useful to do evil things and take advantage of the weak. Very few times they do something actually good.

The reason I exclude science is because I believe that, contrary to society, this requires genuine personal effort.

Quote:is just the natural course of development?

When you look at the globe, such "development" seems quite spotty.

Thank god for Sargent Louis Pasteur. Take that you fuckin microbes, rat-a-tat-tat-tat!

Societies controlled by force and fear always fall. It is just matter of time until the whole theocratic governments of the middle east fall. But this always happens not because of a conscious effort by the politicans, but by the tired people united by one idea: a better lifestyle. Its always the same pattern.

(June 23, 2017 at 1:01 pm)Macoleco Wrote: I have been wondering if the progress of society (excluding science), is just the natural course of development? 

In some sense it must be.  We've been here awhile, always adapting to our current situation.  The progress of society could be viewed through the lens of our constant search for a better means of survival, and for a better quality of life in the act of surviving. 

Quote:What I mean is that no group of politicians, will, or ideology will make society progress, but the natural instinct of humans to avoid pain. In history, the most important changes have been because of revolutions and wars. Not because a group of politicians sat down and made the world a better place.

Pain avoidance (and pain aversion) is certainly one of our motivators - but I'd caution against reducing every motivation to that singular purpose, or every exampe pof progress as having happened due to that motive.  Accute suffering definitely makes us jump up and take notice, except when it doesn't, and we become listless and catatonic in the face of abject despair...or revert to a state of overt savagery; chasing down our neighbors and brutalizing them in what were once civilized streets.  

Quote:It seems to me politics are only useful to do evil things and take advantage of the weak. Very few times they do something actually good.

I think that politic is a tool, and a tool is morally indeterminate.  That we use the tool for evil more often than good (assuming we do) probably says more about our relative opportunity for evil as compared to our opportunity for good.  Wide is the path that leads to damnation, and all that jazz. 

Quote:The reason I exclude science is because I believe that, contrary to society, this requires genuine personal effort.

It probably requires genuine effort to properly dick someone over through politics as well.   If they're all doing it on accident..we're fucked.

Quote: It is just matter of time until the whole theocratic governments of the middle east fall.

Oh, I thought you were talking about the US because we are on our way out, too.

(June 23, 2017 at 1:23 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Pain avoidance (and pain aversion) is certainly one of our motivators - but I'd caution against reducing every motivation to that singular purpose, or every exampe pof progress as having happened due to that motive.  Accute suffering definitely makes us jump up and take notice, except when it doesn't, and we become listless and catatonic in the face of abject despair...or revert to a state of overt savagery; chasing down our neighbors and brutalizing them in what were once civilized streets.  

That's probably because violence mainly covers the majority of newscasts these days, so we are in effect, becoming immune and the shock value is wearing thin.

I wouldn't know.  My news feed is happy funtimes all the time. I'd be a miserable fuck if I watched the murder porn people call news.