No matter how kindly you obtained a slave or how kindly you treat them, you're still owning a person, which is morally corrupt. This isn't debatable.

(September 23, 2017 at 8:17 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

Quote:Slavery is neither a good, nor a bad thing, inherently.  It's how slaves are obtained and how they are kept that evil can be fund. what most of you forget is most of the world elects slavery over the alternative, even today!

Says the guy who's never been one, ever.  Drich, I wonder...how does your wife refrain from instantly barfing every morning that she wakes up next to you? 😏

Yes, Drich.  Owning humans as property is morally wrong.  And no, I'm  not going to debate you on it, you lil' fuckin' weirdo!

But THEY LOVE THEM!!!!

I don't like my wife telling me to drop a couple of pounds, and I do love her.

Can't even imagine even more control over my heathen brain.

Owning people as property will always be wrong, still is wrong, was wrong back then, was wrong the UK and US under recent slave trading, just wrong.

The fairy land of benign slavery in early history is a sure lack of imagination or an outright denial of reason.

But some of these people also deny evolution, think a global flood happened and think that vicarious redemption is justified..

Glad I live in reality.

(September 23, 2017 at 8:17 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

Quote:Slavery is neither a good, nor a bad thing, inherently.  It's how slaves are obtained and how they are kept that evil can be fund. what most of you forget is most of the world elects slavery over the alternative, even today!

Says the guy who's never been one, ever.  Drich, I wonder...how does your wife refrain from instantly barfing every morning that she wakes up next to you? 😏

Yes, Drich.  Owning humans as property is morally wrong.  And no, I'm  not going to debate you on it, you lil' fuckin' weirdo!

So... I can take possession of your children anytime I want? or do they belong to you as in they are your kids and not mine?

Word games aside we at our core OWN our children, how is that not morally wrong (again word games aside.)

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(September 23, 2017 at 8:28 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:Slavery is neither a good, nor a bad thing, inherently.

Yes it's bad regardless 

ok then sport riddle me this... what happens to the 100's of millions if not billions dependant on slavery to live? Then 100's of millions of slaves who literally could not work/live any otherway and the billions who depend on slave labor to make food and raw material affordable in order for them to eek out a living...

Take away all of that 2/3's of the world could not sustain it's current way of living. Only the extremely rich and they could not sustain that for very long.

Quote: It's how slaves are obtained and how they are kept that evil can be fund. 

Quote:No it does not matter how nice slave are treated . Owning someone else or praying on their vulnerability is bullshit. 

preying on vulnerability is wrong that is apart of what I identified. I also pointed out we own our kids, and ask what is wrong with that?

Quote:Most of the world elects for a lot of terrible shit . That does not make it not terrible .

Then please, offer another solution where the poorest of the poor want or need for nothing.

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(September 24, 2017 at 9:19 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(September 23, 2017 at 5:34 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Really fantastic series by BBC on this called 

The Lost Kingdoms Of Africa

I just read the part on the powerful African empires in Andrew Marrs History of the world. They were in the middles ages the equal of any European empire in scope and complexity but suffered from repeated invasions by foreign powers, initially muslim then later European.

So Ironage/Dark ages is where you put the most civilized most advanced African society. This is the picture all people of African decent should model their behavior after, this is the culture we should all look up to, rather than push on and demand that all cultures here meld together?

Slaves have it so good that they want or need for nothing? Really? It's a welfare program now, is it?

The amount of idiocy Drich crams into each post is nothing short of amazing.

(September 24, 2017 at 9:50 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(September 23, 2017 at 12:25 pm)Drich Wrote: The history lesson was your answer.
1) I identify slavery as being a morally neutral institution  
2) american slavery was not across the board "roots bad" Underscoring point one in history there are both good and bad examples of slavery
3) Even if it were "roots bad," in Korean people migrating to the US after 1950 we have examples of people who across the board had it "roots bad" when imperial Japan annexed the Korean peninsula after WWI, Kill all the royal families enslaved their children and put them to work in their own family's farms for 50+ years and still they Meaning the generation who were enslaved (being hated by the americans (back and white) who were at war with them) had nothing to over come outside their own pride. Which is why so many come here and by even our own standard become successful.

So you see I did answer your question with a history lesson. why? because you can't argue historical fact. Slavery doesn't/didn't just touch black skin. yet black people seem to be stuck on it, while other races simply move past it. again why? Harper Lee has a great answer.

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Quote:"Setting a Watchman" was not conceived by Harper Lee. It was a typical excuse by white supremacists like Jefferson Davis and Thomas Jefferson.

a, duh..
The purpose being to take a people like medieval Japan and fast forwarding their development into the modern age after WWII. The idea here was to take stone/bronze age people on the fast track to modern preindustrial man. The alternative favored by most of America including Lincoln where to use black people to colonize central and south America and or simply send them back to Africa. the nation of Liberia was the result of Lincoln's personal desires. people like Jefferson Davis and Jefferson felt black people would not be welcome back and felt that they could be taught how to be brought up and function as a westerner/American.

Quote:I identify slavery as always morally evil.

And what of the people who could not afford to live any other way?

Quote: That is because freedom has great value to me. I must extend that to others.

What of the freedom to elect bondage in slavery? True freedom would allow slavery if both parties were in agreement to said terms.

Quote:I dare you to provide an example of "good slavery". Name one human being who this was "good" for.

Again I am first generation born outside of slavery on my mother side. an example of evil slavery was the forced service my gradnfather endured and was made to grow food for emperial Japan after his family lands were annexed after WWI. I still remember the scars on his back.

Then another man who paid my Grandfather's way out of korea my Grandfather made a deal with a guy to pay him back if he could get him a small field to work. he worked the field from till he literally had a stroke in that field and crawled home. He was never more happy in his life.

I also gave the example where in the south during America's slavery days, MOST slaves were not treated like we think. Most were prized and well looked after because the owner as well as the slaves very existence depended on them being able to work together to eek out an existance. Some of these slaves were treated like family hence the name "uncle tom". While hated by their contemporaries uncle tom's were often loved by their host families. there are even examples of uncle toms being included in wills and being set free only to serve out their lives with their host families anyway.

Not all slavery begins and ends with the "roots" series version of things. Much of the slavery in the bible was mutually benficial, like wise today billions could not live in not for slave labor providing affordable food and raw materials.

The ultimate example of good slavery was Joseph serving Pharaoh. while he started out poorly, but rose through the ranks and finally was placed as a slave in charge of all of Egypt. Second to only Pharaoh.

This is the picture of slavery God gives us. If we dedicate ourselves to Him (while things may start out rough) He will put us incharge of vast resources and people.

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(September 24, 2017 at 12:18 pm)Shell B Wrote: No matter how kindly you obtained a slave or how kindly you treat them, you're still owning a person, which is morally corrupt. This isn't debatable.

Again, if you do not own or show possession of your children in anyway then is  it not logical that anyone could then claim them for themselves? Word games aside if you own your kids then why is it then evil to show ownership of anyone else in the same way you would possess your own child?

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(September 26, 2017 at 9:12 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The amount of idiocy Drich crams into each post is nothing short of amazing.

Character assassination is not a position. it is a lazy attempt to gain the upper hand while name calling. who are you appealing to? those on the site who's heads hurt when they are made to think about a subject differently?

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(September 24, 2017 at 3:52 pm)JackRussell Wrote: [quote='LadyForCamus' pid='1624590' dateline='1506212243']

Says the guy who's never been one, ever.  Drich, I wonder...how does your wife refrain from instantly barfing every morning that she wakes up next to you? 😏

Yes, Drich.  Owning humans as property is morally wrong.  And no, I'm  not going to debate you on it, you lil' fuckin' weirdo!

But THEY LOVE THEM!!!!

I don't like my wife telling me to drop a couple of pounds, and I do love her.

Can't even imagine even more control over my heathen brain.

that is because you have been fooled into thinking you have complete control over your life. when the truth of the matter is, you don't. In fact you may only be able to make 1/4 of all of your decisions (usally stupid ones what to eat or what to watch) without someone or some circumstance limiting your ability to choose what you would truly want.

Quote:Owning people as property will always be wrong, still is wrong, was wrong back then, was wrong the UK and US under recent slave trading, just wrong.

but what about slavery that does not treat people with a chattel title?

Quote:The fairy land of benign slavery in early history is a sure lack of imagination or an outright denial of reason.

Slavery is as evil or as benign as men will allow. if you think it is not possible to be enslaved to a good man then you can not pathom a truly good man. Or you simply do not understand the word slavery.

Quote:But some of these people also deny evolution, think a global flood happened and think that vicarious redemption is justified..

Glad I live in reality.

where literally 45 million people are currently enslaved to help provide you with the life style you live.

It's not character assassination when you've been providing all the ammunition yourself, dolt. It's more like assisted suicide.

Drich, you don't actually legally own your children. You have guardianship over them. Yes, the state can take them away at any time if you mistreat them. Also, they are not slaves, they are not relevant whatsoever to this discussion. Of course, you may treat your children like slaves. In that case, I'd like to know where you live so I can report you to the authorities.

There are so many things wrong with this argument, not the least of which is that slaves aren't all of a sudden free when they're 18. If you think owning a person is okay, you are a very, very bad person. No one has to assassinate your character. You've done it yourself.

Children aren't fucking possessions. You do not OWN your children, you have custody of them. It's your DUTY to look out for their wellbeing, and they don't have a damn single duty to you.

(September 26, 2017 at 8:52 am)Drich Wrote: So Ironage/Dark ages is where you put the most civilized most advanced African society. This is the picture all people of African decent should model their behavior after, this is the culture we should all look up to, rather than push on and demand that all cultures here meld together?

Africa was has always been part of the known world with empires through the ages ,you may have heard of Mali and earlier Egypt ever hear of that? you do know some of their rulers were totally black Africans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fif...y_of_Egypt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ki...ial_Africa

You seem to want to lessen the seeming intelligence of Africans and I can only assume its for racist reasons